“We hope the Pope puts his diplomatic machine to work 100%”

This is a full transcript, in the original English, of my interview with Metin Rhawi, from Suroyo TV and the European Syriac Union, regarding the importance of Pope Francis’ visit to Iraq. Excerpts of this interview were used here and here.

How important is this visit for the Christians in Iraq?

The Christians in Iraq, we have good knowledge about what they are thinking, and regarding this visit many people find it important, of course, because they belong to the Catholic Church, they are Chaldeans or Syriac Catholics, and that gives them a possibility to see their supreme leader in faith. But at the same time there are also clear voices from the same community who have reservations. 

We know the situation of our people, the Christians in Iraq. We are out in the diaspora, we have lost everything, it is about existing or not in their homeland. Since Daesh no rights have been acknowledged. We are happy that they are talking a bit more about the Yazidis now, and also remembering that there were Christians who suffered very much, and so they are also mentioned, but we have lost properties, our land, our cities, our villages, our rights and there has also been a very bad influence in the civil society, with people thinking that they do not actually need the Christians, they are not part of the system, part of the culture, and also some voices from Muslim leaders asking why the Pope should come to Iraque, since he is an infidel. 

Of course, Al-Khadimi and Barham Salih have expressed their gratitude and they are happy he is coming, they are doing their best and trying to show a good face, but both sides exist, in general, among the society, and also among the Christians. Some are very happy, but others are raising issues. We have been victims of genocide for over 100 years. The last big genocide was in 1915, prior to that, 1895 and then Daesh 2014. Nobody demanded acknowledgement or liability for what happened then and now. Rights do not exist. Nobody talks about the possibility of educating our children in our language, the right to be Christian and if we want to produce and consume alcohol it should not be a problem, but instead we see bombing of the stores that sell alcohol in Baghdad. So there are many rights that have been left out and it seems to those people that the Pope should ask about this situation before coming here and making sure that the rights should be acknowledged and given to the Christians, the Assyrians/Chaldeans/Syriacs, because it gives some kind of legitimacy to the Baghdad regime, as if they had been successful in dealing with this sort of thing. But obviously the Pope will be having diplomatic discussions with them, I believe. 

But of course we know the Vatican has always had a very pragmatic approach to diplomacy, and have in fact been able to achieve successes and rights precisely through dialogue with regimes that are not always friendly, such as China.

Obviously, the Pope’s administration is very powerful and he is in a position that he can, indirectly, influence some foreign ministries. Obviously, the countries that are Catholic, and proud of it, listen to the Pope when he has something to say, we know that! That is why we, as the European Syriac Union have not expressed reservations about this visit. We think it is good, it is very important that he visit our homeland, because some of our people belong to his church, they are faithful to his church, and to him, and he should be asking about their rights. We hope that he will do that, we understand also that he is not a leader of a country who has an army to invade, or to impose sanctions, but we know that he has the capacity, when he wants to, to draw a line in the sand that should not be crossed. We hope that is his intention, because we see a lot of concern from the Pope and the cardinals and bishops around him have expressed this, that Christianity should not vanish from the Middle East, from Iraq. They are trying to do their best, but their strongest weapon is prayer... But we know that he has diplomacy and we believe that he will use it, of course. 

I am trying to show you the full picture. There are people on the ground with both opinions. I know that in Baghdedi and Bartella for three months a choir has been practicing singing hymns in Italian and in Latin, as well as in Arabic and Syriac, to show that they are proud to be Assyrian/Syriac/Chaldean, they have their own language, but they belong to Iraq at the moment, they are Iraqi and they are also Catholics. 

Disunity has always been a problem for Christians in the Middle East. Following the persecution by the Islamic State, has the situation improved?

If you look internally, when it comes to Christianity, the persecution woke us up from this strange dream that we are different empires living on the ground. In fact we are hospitalised on the ground, we are close to dying on the ground, but still the church leaders are not trying to find us a common line on the ground for Iraq. The Patriarchs and leaders of the different churches should cooperate much more. They are all Christian, but they have the same roots, they are the same people, there is no doubt that they are the same community, but they are divided in different "isms", when it comes to faith some are Catholics, some are Orthodox. They should have done much more.

Watching the political leaders, I can see that they are trying, but the ones who have more power, with seats in Parliament, consider that they are big enough to decline any interest that does not benefit them directly, they are not thinking as a community, but rather as parties. We are still divided, unfortunately, in that sense. It is tough to say that, it hurts, but it is the reality.

There are many reasons for the Pope not to visit at the moment. A recent bombing in Baghdad, the pandemic… The Pope has personally insisted on going. In your opinion is he being foolish, brave, or both?

We have seen in the news that even the previous Pope has expressed his fear and called upon Pope Francis to be careful and maybe not visit because of the security, and the Pandemic. I think that the Pope is not stupid, he is not foolish. He is doing a very good thing to show that he is with his people and that he has interests in Iraq because of the people and because the societies in the Middle East are based on faith and religion and he is a leader that mush show that he is close to his people. And he is doing that and we should really give him credit for that.

We hope he will get home safe and secure, and I think that will be arranged, I am not worried that something might happen to him. His faithful love him, and they won't get too close because of Covid. I think all this will be respected, and he knows how much this means to his people, because even if some say he should not visit before rights are guaranteed, there is a part of the community that is really insisting, and rightly so, that he is showing courage and showing that he is with them, that he knows that they exist there and that nobody should be able to force them out. So much so that he is even willing to visit them himself. It is an act of being with his people, and that is good, and we should give him credit. 

But of course, above all, we really hope he will run his diplomacy machine to work 100%, because it is a very critical situation, in Iraq and in the Middle East in general. 

In Iraq there are about 300 thousand Christians from different churches, of the Chaldean/Assyrian/Syriac people today. So, from being about 4 million 20 years ago, maybe more, to 1.8 million in 2003, or 1.5, according to the figures, now people say 200 thousand, others say 300 thousand, so we can see that it is like 10% left. We are not far away, in time, it could be in our lifetimes... This is frightening, and we need to be awake and I think the Pope is acting on that. 

ISIS destroyed the harmony of the society in Nineveh

This is a full transcript, in the original English, of my conversation with Yezidi activist Mirza Dinnayi. It was recorded on the 14^th of March and used for a series of articles published a few days before the liberation of Mosul.

Esta é uma transcrição completa, no inglês original, da minha conversa com o activista yazidi Mirza Dinnayi. Foi gravada no dia 14 de Março e usada para uma série de artigos publicados dias antes da libertação de Mossul.

When Mosul is liberated, we can expect the situation between Kurdistan and Baghdad to come to the surface. Do you believe that it could turn into an armed conflict?

There are many conflicts that can happen after the liberation of Mosul. One of them that you mentioned is the conflict between the KRG and the central government about the future of the disputed area.

But what we saw in the last weeks also, because of the Turkish factor and pressure from Turkey, was a conflict between PKK and KDP which is also a very dangerous conflict which is taking place in Sinjar area. Just today some PKK civilian sympathizers, Yezidi people, were demonstrating in Sinjar and a 16 year old was killed by Peshmerga forces from KDP and about 20 people were injured. Two weeks ago, or one week ago, there was also a conflict between Rojava militia, which is supported by Turkey and KDP and PKK forces, and there were also more than 20 injured and at least four people were killed.

So the problem is that we have, in these disputed areas, two types of conflict. One is between KRG and the central government, about the future administration of this region, and the second is an inter-Kurdish conflict, with influence of Turkey and Iran. Some Kurdish forces are supported by Turkey and others are supported by Iran and they are fighting each other. This is more dangerous than the conflict between Iraq and Kurdistan.

I have read reports on heavy presence of PKK militants in and around Sinjar, and that many of these are actually Yezidi members of PKK. Is it true that there is a big presence of Yezidis in PKK?

The sympathy is more directly to the YBS [Sinjar Protection Units] and YPG, more than being members, there are actually very few members, among Iraqi Yezidis there are no members of the PKK, but we have members of these YPG or YBS militias, which are also armed forces, but supported by the Iraqi Government, and they have some relations with the PKK, but they are not direct members of the PKK because PKK is a forbidden organization in Iraq and Turkey, but also in Europe.

So these are people who have some sympathy for PKK, and one of the reasons why they joined YPG or YBS is because they were the ones who, in 2014, liberated more than 150 thousand Yezidis from the Mountain when ISIS attacked the Yezidis. At that time the Peshmerga forces collapsed, the Iraqi forces collapsed, and these people came and saved the lives of tens of thousands of Yezidis who were surrounded in the mountain, without food or water. So this is one of the reasons some of the people in the area have some sympathies for these forces and joined them.

We also have armed force which belongs to the Iraqi Hash al-Shabi Forces [Popular Mobilization Forces] who are Yezidis from one side, and which also have some relations with YPG or YBS. The problem is that KDP said that Sinjar should belong to them, and the Peshmerga say that these groups do not belong to the Peshmerga and they are not legal groups, so they should leave. But the problem is that these people are from Sinjar, not from outside. This is a problem that we have and we have tried to solve this conflict in a peaceful way, but unfortunately it has not been possible.

The Kurds seem set on independence. What is your position on this?

There is a wish for independence among the Kurdish people, we support this wish, but we think that these problems, especially in the disputed areas, because most of the Yezidi people and the minorities, Yezidi and Christian, in Iraq, are living in these disputed areas and we think the only way to declare independence is if it is peaceful, because a war will damage our community.

The Yezidis have some demands from Iraq and from Kurdistan, and our demands are to have some special autonomous areas, self-administered autonomous areas, for Yezidis, a province in Sinjar and Nineveh Plain, and these areas should be in cooperation between Bagdad and Kurdistan. This is the wish of the Yezidi people. Because there has been no referendum, we don't know what the people will decide, we think that it is the best way to find what the Yezidi people want. I think the Yezidis will agree, but not without conditions.

If Kurdistan does become independent, and an autonomous region for minorities were to be created, should it be linked to Bagdad or to Erbil?

After all the problems that we had, after the genocide, I think it is the full right of the Yezidis and the Christians to have some demands in order to be part of Kurdistan or not. This is the position of the Yezidis at the moment. Most of the Yezidis would like to be in Kurdistan, because we don't think that we have a future with Mosul, we think there is no future between Yezidis and Mosul, because all the attacks were planned in Mosul, Yezidis were sexually enslaved in Mosul by Sunni Arabs, so there is no way in the next generation to be integrated so smoothly with Mosul, but with the Kurds we have the same roots, we have ethnical roots, so it could be. But we have to have a democratic background and to save the lives and the future of Yezidi existence, their political and social entity, I don't think the Yezidis will agree without conditions.

When you speak of an autonomous region, you would be living side by side with other minorities, such as Christians, Shabaks, Turkmen, etc. Is this what the Yezidis want as well?

Yes, this is the idea, that all the minorities live together in peace.

The Kurds reserve places in their parliament for ethnic minorities, but this does not include Yezidis. They say Yezidis are Kurds with a different religion. What is your opinion on this?

The Yezidis are not united about this issue. Some of them say we are an independent nation, some say we are Kurds, and some say we are an ethno-religious entity and that this ethno-religious entity should be respected. So we have three versions, and my opinion is that the identity of the Yezidis has been established now as an identity after genocide, so the feeling of the Yezidis before and after 2014 is different. The politicians in Iraq and Kurdistan didn't realize this until now, unfortunately, but they should recognize it.

Christians seem very divided in this region, with more than a dozen political parties and at least six militias. The Kurds are also quite divided, although all seem to agree on independence. Does this problem affect the Yezidis as well?

Unfortunately yes.

The community is divided because of the genocide and the massacres, and the genocide has not stopped yet. So my community is also divided in membership among different parties. We have Yezidis who belong to the PKK, Yezidis who belong to the KDP, PUK, independent Yezidis, some small Yezidi parties which were useless in the last two years. Now the elections will come and there will be new political identities of Yezidis, so I think my community is also very divided, maybe not as badly as our Christian brothers, but also divided.

I see you used the term Christian brothers. If there is this autonomous region you would be living as brothers with the Christians, Shabaks, Turkmen... Are relations between Yezidis and Christians and these other minorities brotherly, would it be easy to live in this autonomous region in peace?

I think that between Yezidis and Christians there is no problem. With the Shabak Shias we have no problem. The Shabak Sunnis, unfortunately, joined ISIS. The Shabak themselves are divided. And for Turkmen it is also very difficult because we have Turkmen Shias and Turkmen Sunnis and these aggressively joined ISIS, and they were members and they attacked Yezidis, but we have very good relations with the Turkmen Shia, so you will find that the minorities are even divided among themselves and that ISIS destroyed the harmony of the societies, but in my opinion Yezidi, Christians, Shabak Shias and Turkmen Shia can understand each other. Any relationship with Sunni Muslims, because of ISIS, cannot be included in such projects, in my opinion.

For the creation of an autonomous region you would need support and allies. Bagdad and/or Erbil, but also international allies. Do you have allies for this plan at the moment?

Unfortunately we are trying to lobby at the European Union level and at the American level. Everybody, from the UN or different Western countries, they tell us that we are right, that we need an autonomous area, but everybody is asking us who will pay for it. And this is a problem which we have now. We have some solidarity from the Western countries, but nobody is ready, until now to establish a project... I think the international community as a whole is responsible for this.

"Kurdish independence is necessary to avoid further atrocities"

Mohammedali Taha is a member of parliament in the autonomous region of Iraqi Kurdistan for the Kurdistan Democratic Party, and spokesman for the KDP fraction in parliament. This interview was recorded in January, in Lisbon, and used in a series of articles about the situation in Iraq published at the end of June. This is an edited transcript of the conversation, in the original English.

Mohammedali Taha é deputado do Parlamento da região autónoma do Curdistão Iraquiano pelo Partido Democrático do Curdistão e porta-voz da bancada parlamentar. Esta entrevista foi gravada em Janeiro, em Lisboa, e usada numa série de artigos sobre a situação no Iraque, publicadas no final de Junho. Esta é uma transcrição editada e no inglês original, dessa conversa.

Could you tell us about the history that has led up to this point?

Since 1992 we have been able to run a semi-autonomous region, because before that there was the no-fly zone status which applied to the Kurdistan region, so we started a form of self-government. That continued until 2003 and in 2003 the US led coalition intervened in Iraq, toppled Saddam's Ba’ath regime and after that the Kurds of Iraq decided to be a part of the so-called democratization of Iraq. We took part in drafting the Constitution, which included the status of regional government within the federal Iraq, so we have that, but we were supposed to have our rights according to the constitution that we voted for, more than 90% of the people in the Kurdistan region voted for this constitution, so that means they want to be a part of this so-called democratization.

But unfortunately that never happened and we had problems with the Central Government of Iraq since the beginning. Our budget share was supposed to be 17% of the whole revenue of Iraq, but it never arrived, and since January 2014 they have cut our budget share, our employees’ wages and salaries... So this decision was taken by Iraq and it was also complemented by some threats from the central government. The prime-minister Maliki bluntly uttered, both as PM and as Commander in Chief of the army in Iraq – this is a threat – that they were not sending any budget to the Kurdistan region.

So after that we had no more choice. We are an oil rich region and we were sending all the oil to be sold out through the Iraqi part, but they were not going to give us our budget share. So we took our decision to sell our own oil by ourselves, and we have some constitutional and legal basis to do so and have international oil companies and friends who deal with us in the oil business.

But in 2014 another crisis started in Iraq, the rise of ISIS, which began in 2010, but in 2014, after the fall of Mosul in June it brought with it many other problems, like IDPs, the safest place in all of Iraq is Kurdistan, so all these IDPs from the surrounding region started to head towards the Kurdistan region, besides the fact that the budget is cut from Iraq, we are facing a wave of about two million IDPs and at the same time already had around 300 thousand refugees from the Syrian crisis. All the crises in these areas bring the IDPs and refugees to Kurdistan, because it is the safest place.

And all of a sudden the only income that we have, which is the oil revenues, the oil prices also went down.

Yet it still seems to be one of the only stable zones in the neighbourhood…

Fortunately we managed to keep this stability and this security until now and I hope that we continue. The institutions are working, but the people themselves care, they care about the stability of the place and they cooperate with the security institutions.

Almost 15 years after the fall of Saddam, is there a future for Iraqi Kurdistan within Iraq, or is independence inevitable?

Well, I would say the second. Independence has been the dream of every Kurd and it has been the slogan of the Kurdish movements in all four parts, but the part in Iraq had more advances since the beginning, until now, and more opportunities to reach where we are today.

I always give this example. We have many Kurds in the diaspora, I have cousins in the US. They probably say they are US citizens, but originally Kurdish. And I know people in Europe who say the same. But you will not find a single Kurd, in Turkey, Iran, Iraq or Syria, saying they are proudly Syrian, or Iraqi or Iranian or Turkish. They are not proud to be part of these states simply because they do not have their basic rights.

We, as a party in Iraq, have never been able to have our rights when we were united to Baghdad. Before 2005, you know what happened in this region, all these atrocities, the massacres, the genocides, the mass graves, the chemical weapons... Everything has been tried against the people of Kurdistan by successive governments of Iraq.

From the Monarchy to the Republic, and to Saddam. Even after 2005 we tried our best to tell them that we were ready to cooperate and try our best to be a part of this democratic federation. We entered the federation after 2005, but we never had the opportunity to get our basic rights. So it seems that to avoid any other atrocity, to avoid other mass killings, bloodshed and conflict, another position for Kurds is necessary.

Is this the position of your party, or is it the position of most of the mainstream Iraqi Kurdish parties?

I would say of most of the mainstream. Let’s talk about the election campaign, one of their main programs is to do everything towards an independent Kurdistan. And in the bylaws of the political parties, if you go to them, most of them are nationalist based.

Turkey is often portrayed as being hostile to anything related to Kurdish autonomy, anywhere... Will Ankara put pressure to stop the independence of Iraqi Kurdistan?

The position of Turkey has changed recently. I'd say within the past five years we have been dealing with Turkey... A huge deal in terms of trade, and at the same time Turkey is only dealing with the Kurdistan region when it comes to oil. We are selling our oil using the Turkish harbours, our main route to reach the international oil market.

The position of Turkey regarding the autonomous Kurdish region is totally changed. Once, in Turkey, of course, it was forbidden to say Kurd. They called them the Turks of the mountains. And the Kurdish language was forbidden. Meanwhile they had 20 million Kurds. Of course they are scared of having these 20 million Kurds, and their national movement is a rebellion movement which is going on in Turkey, that is something different, but when it comes to Iraq our leaders are being received in Turkey with the Kurdish flag behind them. For example, our president, when he goes to Turkey, is received as other Heads of State, the same goes for our Prime-minister and our delegations.

Not only that, but Turkey's position nowadays has totally changed and the main factor behind that is the economy. There are a couple of thousand Turkish companies working in the Kurdistan region, and that is not the case in other parts of Iraq.

We often hear about the dream of a United Kurdistan. How does your independence and your drawing closer to Turkey affect this and is it even a dream still?

We have been separated for a century. So we are now four different parts, and we have differences, and those differences are deep. In terms of the states we are divided between and in terms of the opportunities that the people have.

In Iraq we are more advanced towards self-determination. But that is not the case in other parts of Kurdistan. So we are very clear that when we speak of independence it is the independence of Iraqi Kurdistan.

Has that led to conflicts with other Kurdish groups? I know things are difficult between Iraqi Kurdistan and the PKK.

We have different takes... PKK, which is nowadays considered the main political Kurdish party which fights for the Turkish part – although they have fighters from other parts also – but their main goal is not Kurdish independence, and they do not even call for any Kurdish entity.

They have different goals, which are their own, and I don't agree with them, but we have been in conflict with the PKK. The first bullet against the Kurdish Government in 1993 was fired by the PKK. That conflict, whether cold or warm, is ongoing until today. And it is not over our position to declare independence. There are many other differences, many other powers. For example, the PKK, as a political party, is supported by some regional powers to be against certain politics in the region.

What are your relations with Kurds from Syria and Iran?

After the situation in Syria – the Arab Spring and what happened in 2011 – we have a good relation with Syria. Syria borders the Kurdistan region, when the Kurdish administration, in the Kurdish parts of Syria started for the first time we had two parts of Kurdistan that were administered by Kurds, sharing the same border.

But the situation now is different, because the PKK started taking over the situation in Syria, and PKK does not accept any other Kurdish political power in Syria. So as a result all these political powers are nowadays in Erbil because they can't breathe there, they can't be there. That is why the situation nowadays with the administration in Syria, when it comes to politics, is a bit... We have ups and downs.

But in terms of humanitarian aid, our region regularly provides medicine and health facilities. We have always been open to the Syrian Kurds. There are 300 thousand Syrian refugees, most of them are Kurdish, in the Kurdistan region. But when it comes to politics, the methods they are applying in the Syrian part of Kurdistan, we don't really accept, we don't go with it.

And in Iran?

The Kurdish opposition in Iran is also divided. One part goes with the ones that are real opposition and they are in Erbil, of course. Politically they are not accepted in Iran, and so they are in Iraqi Kurdistan. We have very good relations with them. But another part are sister parties with PKK and they do other stuff.

There were a few Kurdish militants who joined ISIS, but mostly the Kurds became famous as the only force which stood up to ISIS on the ground. That generated a lot of sympathy for the Kurds...

When ISIS came in Iraq, in June 9th 2014, the second largest city of Iraq, Mosul was controlled by ISIS in a couple of hours. Of course we were not expecting ISIS to attack the Kurdistan region, because at the beginning what defined ISIS was a Sunni/Shia conflict, because the Sunnis in Iraq feel that they are not being included, that the Shiite majority government is not giving the Sunni population their rights.

The majority of the ISIS leaders were Sunni tribal leaders, that was clear. And it was seen as part of the Sunni/Shia conflict.

And specifically a Sunni/Shia Arab conflict...

In Iraq we have three main entities. Sunnis, Shias and Kurds. Kurds are Kurds: We have Shia Kurds, we have Sunni Kurds, we have Christian, Yezidi, all these differences of ideology and of religion, but they are all considered Kurds.

But when it comes to Arabs, Sunni or Shia is the difference, their sect is the difference. So we were considering it as a conflict between these two sectarian groups, the two main sectarian groups.

But two months later, when ISIS changed their war policy and began attacking Kurdistan, we were shocked. We were not ready in terms of military and all of a sudden we shared a border with ISIS which was more than 1.000 kilometers long. The only thing we had were brave Peshmerga. Their rifles were from the 70's, Russian Kalashnikovs, and their weaponry was really outdated, so we had difficult times, but the international allies against ISIS started to see that the only real fighters against ISIS on the ground were us and they started to support us in terms of military training, supplying weaponry, all these things. Hopefully we will continue to keep on defeating ISIS, and control our borders.

Previously we have had a problem with disputed areas with the Iraqi part, and now, after ISIS we don't have it any more, we have controlled the so-called disputed area between Kurdistan and Iraq and we believe that they are part of the Kurdistan region. Politically speaking, in Kurdistan region, we say there are no disputed areas, we have controlled everything.

Baghdad might disagree...

Baghdad does disagree, continuously, but so far that is the reality.

Before we go there, we tend to see, especially here in the West, that the Middle East has a serious problem with radical Islam. But it seems that Iraqi Kurdistan has seemed, so far, to avoid this problem. So is it correct to say that this is more of an Arab problem than a regional problem?

It is a regional problem. The Turks, for example, are not Arabs, but radicalism is a trend in Turkey. In the Kurdistan region the major political parties tend to be more secular than based on religious ideology, so the form of government in the Kurdistan region goes against the line of radicalism. And we have fought against it, we have fought against radicalism in the Kurdistan region and we continue to fight it. We are a Muslim majority society, and the mosques play a huge role in this issue of radicalism. We had people that joined ISIS from the Kurdistan region, and their main education base were mosques under the supervision of these radical Islamists.

We still have political parties in Parliament which are very radical, no different in terms of the basis of their ideology from ISIS and other political parties.

You had said that the main parties are secular, but the problem with radicalism is when it gains roots in the ground and amongst the people. So among the Kurdish people, all over Iraqi Kurdistan, is there much extremist influence?

Not much, but it depends on the area. We are influenced by the geography. The areas which border Arab fanatics, of course they are influenced. There are areas in the Kurdistan region where people listen to ISIS radio. For a couple of months the waves were received in those areas. Imagine that! It does influence. So it depends on that and also the movement is not a joke... It is going on in the region and it has its roots, but it is not that powerful in the Kurdistan region, thankfully.

When Mosul falls, then this problem of the disputed areas will probably rise again politically. Could it also become a military issue between Kurdistan and Baghdad?

I hope not, but it is very likely. Because it is not easy for Baghdad to abide by this constitution that they helped draft.

According to the constitution we should have a referendum in those areas no later than December 2007. That never happened, because the Iraqi part did not allow it. We would have loved to have it and we would love for the people of these areas to decide their own destiny.

Will you still promote a referendum?

We are still promoting a referendum, because we believe that the people of these regions should decide their destiny, they should decide where to go, what to do, how to be governed.

Is there a risk of persecution of Arab communities which live there?

There is a risk of that.

As a politician, is there anything the Government of Kurdistan is trying to do to protect them and allow them to remain there if they want to?

The main issue of the people in those areas is security. Not only for Arabs, also for Kurds, Christians, Turkmen, all these ethnicities, the main issue is security. But the majority of the population in these areas, including Arabs, and perhaps especially the Arabs, are happier with the security provided by the Kurdistan Regional Government than by the security provided by Bagdad.

You mentioned the minorities, how might this affect them? You say their main concern is security, do you think they will accept and support the Kurds against Baghdad?

Well, all those Iraqi communities, Turkmen, Christians, Assyrians, Arabs, Armenians, Kurds, everyone from any part of Iraq, if anything happens to them they seek refuge in Kurdistan. So I think that answers your question.

You were talking about the ethnic minorities, but I saw you did not mention the Yezidis.

Yezidis also...

But some Yezidis complain that they are being called Kurds when they feel they are a distinct community.

They have a religion, they are a religious group in Kurdistan. Their language is Kurdish, they live in this area, it is the only religion on Earth that practices in Kurdish, they pray to God in Kurdish, if they say they are not Kurdish, I don't know what else to say. It's their decision... If they are not Kurdish, fine, but they practice in Kurdish, they speak Kurdish, they're holy book is written in Kurdish. It is the only Kurdish religion on Earth. Their basis is religious, and it is obvious to everyone in the region. If they say they are Arabs, or that they are Yezidis, and this is different, then they should have some scientific basis...

In terms of Christians, I have spoken to many over the past years and more recently I have been asking them about the relationship with the Kurds. Most of them will say they are very grateful because the Kurds took them in and gave them refuge and protection, but there are also complaints and fears. Some of them say they do not forget that the Kurds helped the Turks massacre them in 1915, in Simile in 1933, and some, more recently, say they don't forget that the Peshmerga promised to protect their villages, but then fled and left them there when ISIS advanced... Is it possible to regain the trust of the Christians?

Well, starting with the Armenian genocide, and the genocide that happened in the areas, like Simele... At that time it was the Ottoman Empire which was committing these genocides against them. Those who were soldiers, were forced to serve the army in the Ottoman Empire, there was Mandatory Military Service, some people served for up to 20 years.

But there were also civilians who took part, they say...

They say... But the history writers don't confirm this. I don't know, it belongs to history, that is history and say we are a part of it? Ok. But talking about nowadays, that their villages were destroyed by ISIS... Its war! Ok, I promise that I will do my best to protect a village which is under the control of ISIS and we also control parts of the village or the town, then all of a sudden the war changes the whole situation... It is not about the promises you make. Then ISIS takes control and starts to blow up all the buildings... The basis of that argument is weak, I'd say.

If they don't trust... Nobody trusts the security in that region. Every night, when we sleep, we are very brave to sleep there. Because 20 km from the city where I live there used to be ISIS. Nowadays it is between 50 and 60 km, it is a bit cleaner, but nowhere in Iraq is secure. I am not trying to defend the Kurdistan Region's position, but they should honestly look at the past 20 years, go back and see the difference in the way they were treated by the Kurds and in the other parts.

You were saying your city is 20 km from ISIS front lines. Do you have any military training?

Not really, no.

Was your father also a guerrilla in the mountains?

My family, the majority of them were and are military, including my sisters.

The position of women within Kurdish society is very different from what we see in most Arabic societies around them...

Well, again, they are influenced as well. It is different when it comes to the openness of the Kurdish culture, it is quite open, compared to other cultures in the region. For example, it is very well known that the Kurdish women are also fighters, and they fight alongside with men. That is not something new for us, it has been like this for centuries. They are better fighters, sometimes, than men, and there are no differences there.

And there is some other stuff... It relates to the culture, what is different in our culture and in the culture of others in the region, because we are a different nation.

You mentioned the instability in the whole region, with Kurdistan trying to remain stable amongst the instability, is there one thing necessary to bring stability to the region? Is there one factor which is destabilizing the region?

This is a very important question... One factor? There are many factors for instability. But of course, not talking to each other, not coming together around a table, not accepting each other as we are, is the main factor for instability.

I am asking this because many times we see... And I have begun to think this is a regional issue, I won't say Arab, because I get it from Christians too... They will say this is all because of Israel, all because of America, all because of Russia... A tendency to blame others for local problems.

We are to blame. Nobody but us. Everybody is responsible for what happens to him or to her. So we are to be blamed and if we don't find a solution for how to get together, we should not blame anybody else.

Christians “cautiously joyful” with liberation of Nineveh Plains

This is a full transcript, in the original English, of my conversation with Swedish Assyrian journalist and activist Nuri Kino about the liberation of Qaraqosh and other Christian towns and villages in the Mossul region. Read the news story, in Portuguese, here.

Transcrição integral, no inglês original, da minha entrevista ao jornalista e activista sueco/assírio sobre a libertação de Qaraqosh e de outras vilas e aldeias cristãs na região de Mossul. A reportagem está aqui.

We have had conflicting reports about the situation in Qaraqosh. From your information, what is the situation on the ground?

The news regarding the Christians is that Bartella, a town of about 30 thousand inhabitants prior to ISIS, has been fully liberated. We have received videos and pictures of the church bells ringing. That is of course very satisfying.

When it comes to Qaraqosh we received pictures of the main hospital being liberated, the town hall buildings and also the Iraqi Army headquarters. But it is very hard to know if it is totally liberated or not. We are also receiving conflicting information about that.

I just spoke to two of the priests from Qaraqosh and they also have no full information, but the Iraqi army and some of the Christian forces are supposed to be inside Qaraqosh.

Two days ago we received information that it had been liberated. Then information came a couple of hours later saying that there were about 20 ISIS suicide bombers and snipers left in Qaraqosh and they were shooting people from the rooftops. Also, one of the biggest problems is the mines. There are a lot of mines around the city, both anti-personnel mines and street mines.

But we believe that Qaraqosh will be liberated today. [Saturday 21^st October]

How does that make you and other Christians feel?

Qaraqosh is about 70% Syriac Catholic and 30% Syriac Orthodox and I am Syriac Orthodox. For us there is no difference whether it is in southeast Turkey, where I was born, or in Syria or Iraq, or in Iran or in Lebanon. We are all the same nation, the same ethnicity, the same people with different names: Assyrian, Syriac, Chaldean...

Of course, after more than two years of ISIS in our home towns, we are very happy to see it, though we are also careful and cautious, because we never know how things will turn.

Look at what happened in Kirkuk yesterday... All of a sudden sleeping terrorist cells in Kirkuk started to hit the street, more than 20 suicide bombers. They also kidnapped some people and threatened to kill them, and battles are ongoing in Kirkuk, which is also a bit Iraqi city.

So I would say that we are cautiously joyful.

Also, after the liberation there is a lot of work to be done for our people to return to the Nineveh plane, where Bartella and Qaraqosh are. The Swedish MEP Lars Adaktusson is presenting a new resolution in the European Parliament about self-administration in the Nineveh Plane and two other provinces in Northern Iraq, so that these people can feel that they get their dignity back and rule their own areas, or at least get some power in the administrations, so that the inhabitants can feel confident to come back.

Also it is about dignity, so as to get their dignity back. The same thing is going on in Washington DC, there are political movements and political solutions – hopefully – so that people can move back.

In Iraq, before the fall of Saddam, approximately 1.3 million Christians lived there. After the fall of Mossul, we don't know, but we estimate that there are more not more than 250 thousand left.

So more than one million have already left the country, and people are emigrating every day, because they lost hope in the world leaders to protect them. But we do have some hope in what is happening these days, in the liberation of Nineveh and Mossul, and we also have hope in the political solutions that will be on the table over the coming weeks.

Are Christians afraid to be caught in between Baghdad and the Kurds, over who actually controls this region...

That has been going on since the fall of Saddam, it’s nothing new. It’s not a question of being afraid, we know it’s a fact, it’s been a fact for a decade now. So that is why we are asking for self-administration, so as not to be caught in the middle.

Will Bagdad and Kurdistan accept that idea?

Well we hope on the European Union and on Washington and the UN.

A little ringtone for your Saturday ... the church bells ringing in Bartella outside Mosul just liberated from #ISIS pic.twitter.com/qncchINW6Y

— Mindy Belz (@mcbelz) October 22, 2016

"Christians were given three choices, Yazidis only two: 'Convert or die'"

This is a full transcript of my interview with Mirza Dinnayi, advisor for the Kurdish Regional Government and Yazidi activist, who spends his time between Iraq and Germany. The news report, in Portuguese, is here.

Transcrição integral da minha entrevista a Mirza Dinnayi, conselheiro do Governo Regional Curdo e activista pela causa dos yazidi, que passa o seu tempo entre o Iraque e a Alemanha. A reportagem pode ser lida aqui.

Who are the yazidis?

The Yazidis are an ancient religion, about 5000 years old, they are about 500,000 in Iraq and outside of Iraq there are communities in Turkey, Syria, Armenia, Georgia and also a big community in Germany and other countries. Altogether there are about 1 million, half of them are in Iraq. The biggest community is from the Sinjar region – where there are about 320.000 – which was attacked by ISIS.

Because the Yazidi religion is one of the oldest monotheistic religions, believing in one God, although different from Islam and Christianity, they were attacked by Islamic State, which killed more than 3000, kidnapped more than 5000 and raped and enslaved thousands of girls and women. They they say the Yazidis are infidels, in the eyes of the Islamic State, because they are not mentioned in the Koran, which is why they kill them. Now we have more than 400,000 who escaped from their houses from Sinjar and the other areas of the Ninevah plains which are now under the control of ISIS.

What has happened to the communities which had to flee, did they all find refuge with the Kurds?

Yes, we have 400,000 Yazidi refugees in Kurdistan.

What conditions are they living in?

The conditions are very bad, because most of the tents in these camps are very simple tents, which are not prepared for the Winter or the cold. Also the tents which were distributed by UNHCR are not fireproof, they burn in 45 seconds, they are made of nylon so with a simple fire they are gone in 45 seconds.

Every week there are fire accidents in the tents, there are health problems. They are living in a very bad situation, there are no economic perspectives for the people, the people have no resources, no houses, and the local and Iraqi government cannot help them because they are too many. The international organizations are not enough because the situation is very bad and they cannot fill all the needs.

We are talking in general about refugees, but of course many of these people are your friends and family…

Yes, of course. My own town of 35 thousand people, all of them escaped and all of them are living in these tents.

Yazidis being evacuated from Sinjar

Did the fact that they were persecuted bring the Christians and the Yazidis closer together?

The Yazidi and Christian communities are still friends. In this situation they have the same problem with ISIS, with one difference; the Christians were not immediately attacked. During the occupation of Mosul they were given three choices, to convert, flee or pay a tax, the Yazidis were only given two choices: convert or be killed.

Also, ISIS did not take hostages from the Christian population, because they say the Christian religion is mentioned in the Koran, so they can be treated a little bit better than the Yazidis. But both Christians and Yazidis are suffering very much at the hands of ISIS.

What solution do you think is possible for minorities in Iraq? Do you defend the creation of a safe haven, as some defend, or do you believe that these minorities should have their own defence forces?

I think the international community is now responsible for finding a solution for these minorities in Iraq and there are two solutions which should be done, one of them at least. The first is to establish an autonomous region with international support and international peacekeeping forces support in this area of Sinjar and Nineveh plains, or otherwise to help these people leave Islamic countries, because we don't know what will happen in the coming years. We don't know if a new Islamic group will be established. ISIS had roots in Al-Qaeda and Al-Qaeda had roots in Iraq...

Every day there is another radical Islamist group and if there is no solution for this area, to protect these people and to establish peace in this country, it will be impossible to remain.

It is very difficult, most of the people there are helpless and the international community has unfortunately been silent and has not supported these minorities in Iraq.

We know that some Yazidis have chosen to remain in Sinjar mountain and some have taken up arms to defend themselves. Why have they decided to remain in this mountain, where they are more exposed to the Islamic State?*

In the mountain we have some religious heritage, some Yazidi temples. We have some fighters, because they are sure that nobody will help them, the situation of the IDPs in Kurdistan is already very bad so they decided to stay.

We have about 8000 people, some of them are fighters. We have 1250 families, or more, there. They decided to stay because they have no perspectives in Kurdistan or outside. They think it is better to die there than to be refugees in a camp, in a tent, without perspectives, without anything.

Every Yazidi is now waiting to know what the international community ca do for them. Will they support us politically? But until now it has not happened, unfortunately.

Do you believe the Islamic State can be defeated, and how?

What has been done against the Islamic State until now has been very week. We cannot win the war against the Islamic State with only airstrikes. We need forces on the ground, not only from the international community, we need them also from the Sunni world, they should fight ISIS, they should stand against the Islamic State because it was established with a background of Islamic Religion. Now it is the responsibility of the Islamic world, especially the Sunnis, to define themselves, they work against ISIS and the fundamentalist Islam. This is their responsibility, to fight, not only through air raids, but on the ground. We need forces on the ground, otherwise it is not possible to fight ISIS.

ISIS was able to flourish because of widespread discontent among the Sunni population. Do you foresee a future in which Sunnis and Shia can live in peace in Iraq?

I am pessimistic. I don't think that the Sunni and Shia will be together in a closed centralized country. I think the best solution is for them to establish a federal system, governed by moderate people, not radicals, who can serve their population and represent them.

The problem now in Iraq is that most of the Sunni politicians are not representing their communities, the ones in Baghdad, most of them are corrupt, they are working in the Government for their own profits, for their own benefits, and therefore they cannot represent their community.

The people don't know who represents the Sunni community in Iraq, we don't know. Is it ISIS? A radical group? The Ba’ath party remnants? Or the politicians sitting in parliament? We don't know.

Most of the Sunni regions are outside of the control of the Iraqi government, outside of the control of Sunni politicians, and therefore they cannot represent their communities. They should choose Sunni politicians who are not criminals, who are not ISIS supporters, who are not Al-Qaeda supporters, who can serve their citizens and serve the country. This is the problem we have now in Iraq.

Yazidis no monte Sinjar, cercados pelo Estado Islâmico

They have also taken in thousands of refugees, do the minorities feel gratitude towards the Kurds? How are relations between them?

The Kurdish government are doing what they can to support these IDPs and refugees. I think the situation now is that there is no conflict between the Yazidis, or the Christians, and the Kurds.

You can imagine if you have a country with a population of 5 million people and you send them two million refugees, it is a catastrophe. They cannot manage the problem. We know this. But as I said the best solution for these minorities, the Yazidis, the Christians and the Shabak is to establish a type of autonomous area for them. This solution should be implemented with the cooperation of the Iraqi government. 

Kurds are, mostly, Sunni. Is there also danger of radical Islam taking hold among the Kurds?

Yes, of course. We, the members of the minorities are afraid of radical people in Kurdistan. We are happy that the Government is secular, but in the community there are radicals and the Government should speak out against them.

It may be a small number, but over the last 20 years there was a type of islamization of the street, and this led to big problems, so that whereas the Kurdish people in the past were not very religious, there are now some religious people in the community.

There are some Kurds from the KRG who joined ISIS, a small amount, I don't know the number, maybe 300 or 500 fighters, more or less. There is fundamentalism in Kurdistan and we are trying to fight it, to become a liberal community in Kurdistan. We hope for this and we are working towards it, all of us.

What is your opinion on Turkey in the midst of all this?

The negative role of Turkey in support of the Islamic State is well known. Everybody knows that at the beginning Turkey played a very negative role in support of the Islamic groups, especially Jhabat al-Nusra, and other Islamic groups against Bashar al-Assad.

So now we have this problem: Turkey is under a big question mark, will it cooperate with the international community, first to stop the resources of ISIS and to stay in a positive situation? Until now its role has not been positive. Turkey cannot say "I will be independent about the issue of ISIS", because Turkey played a negative role and now they should change their policies and be positive, rather than negative.

Yazidi refugees in Erbil

All this instability has its roots in the Syrian civil war. Is there an end in sight?

They should find an outcome for the situation in Syria, peace should be established between all groups, with all opposition groups and non-opposition groups, otherwise we will have a massacre against the Alawites, for example.

All the Syrian players should work together, without Assad in power, but the Alawites should participate in planning the new country in a democratic way.

*Since this interview was conducted, the siege of Sinjar has been broken by Kurdish forces.

“Western silence on genocide against minorities in Iraq is shocking”

Sister Hanan Youssef

Full transcript of my interview with sister Hanan Youssef, of the Good Shepherd Sisters, who works with refugees in Lebanon. News item, in Portuguese, here.

Transcrição integral, no inglês original, da minha entrevista à irmã Hanan Youssef, das Irmãs do Bom Pastor, que trabalha com refugiados no Líbano. A reportagem pode ser lida aqui.

You work in Lebanon. Are you Lebanese?

Yes, I am Lebanese. I was born in the South of Lebanon, near the border with Israel, but I had to leave when I was 8 years old, I couldn't go back, because Israel occupied this area for many years. After the liberation it was taken by Hezbollah. I never saw it again.

Now I am in the Upper North of Beirut, in a Shia Muslim area, but we also have Christians, Sunnis, Iraqi refugees, Syrian refugees, a mixed population.

Are you Maronite?

Yes, I am Maronite, it is the biggest church in Lebanon. It is a Catholic Church. St. Maron, patron of this church, lived in the fourth century. We have always been Catholic. We have our own oriental liturgy, we have married priests, which shocks the Latin rite a little bit, but we are Catholic.

Your main work is with refugees. Are most from Iraq?

Yes.

The Good Shepherd sisters opened a centre for street children in 2005. In 2006, with the War against Israel, we took charge of a dispensary, a clinic, St. Anthony's clinic. And we welcomed 5000 Shia refugees from an area which Israel bombarded. After that they left and we started to welcome Iraqi refugees, from 2008 to now. All the Christian Chaldean refugees from Iraq came through our centre.

We took a decision as a congregation to be close to this population, because they were very disoriented and needed lots of help, a lot of listening. Their Arabic is a little bit difficult to understand by other NGO's, so they felt more comfortable to come to our centre and all of them, without exception, liked coming here and we took the decision to welcome them, to be beside them and that is why we continue to receive them until today, with the crisis in Mosul, caused by the jihadists, many Iraqis fled Iraq.

In the beginning we welcomed a lot of young couples with their children, they were leaving Iraq forever, but nowadays we are welcoming also elderly people.

Before travelling to Portugal I received a blind woman, in a wheelchair, who is 85 years old. She was forced to leave her home. She was disoriented, very sad, very depressed. I was really sad. I thought to myself, what if it were me, blind and 85 years old, forced to leave my house, my area and all my life behind me? I was really speechless before her.

It is an inhuman situation, This population is forced to leave everything and to flee.

This woman and these more recent refugees are the ones coming from Mossul and the Nineveh Plains... We had heard that many were taking refuge in Arbil, but there are also some travelling to Lebanon?

Yes. When they reach Arbil, if they have money to buy a plane ticket they choose to go to Lebanon and submit a request to UNHCR to get a Visa to go to the West. All of Iraqis dream of leaving Iraq forever. Young people, but now also the elderly, are forced to do it.

Before coming over I also received two young men who came to the dispensary and they were crying: “Sister, we don't need help, we need work”. I listened to them. They said: “Sister, our parents sold everything, jewellery, cars, everything to buy plane tickets for us. We are here now, but we need to bring our family with us. Please help us to find work, to be able to pay for the ticket for our parents.”

Christian refugees in Iraq, fleeing Islamic State

And they were crying. It is unusual to see oriental men crying. I was disoriented and speechless before them, there have been many cases like that.

What is happening in Iraq is genocide. I said that 10 years ago. We are facing a very big genocide in Iraq. It is empty… all the Christians are outside Iraq now. In 1996 there were one million, nowadays we talk about 150.000, it is really a big genocide in Iraq.

Of course there is also a terrible situation in Syria. Do you also have Syrian refugees?

Of course. Our centre receives refugees from Syria, Iraq, other minorities who don't have any place to go. We offer them three kinds of service: Primary healthcare, social help and psychological help.

We have 32 doctors, of all specialities, to help them, because in Lebanon healthcare is private and very expensive, the state is unable to offer the refugees help, because there are four million Lebanese and we received 2.5 million refugees, more than half of the population of Lebanon.

Lebanon has been at war for about 30 years. The entire infrastructure has been destroyed. We don't have enough schools for all the children, enough places in hospitals, enough potable water. It is a big, big challenge.

It is not a developed country, because of the war everything has been destroyed, and to receive so many refugees is a huge crisis. They become poorer and poorer, with no jobs, the Syrian refugees make the society very weak and vulnerable. They are a huge number and among these refugees many jihadists have entered.

The borders are open, with no control, which is why many Jihadists are now in Lebanon, causing trouble, fighting against the Lebanese army, to control a Sunni majority area, as you hear in the news, every day we have soldiers killed by jihadists, and many such things.

The Syrian refugees live in Lebanon with no job. They are killing, stealing, they are violent. They need a place to live but the state is unable to help them and the international community didn't help Lebanon as much as we need. That is why there is really a big, big crisis in Lebanon. That is why we, as the Good Shepherd Sisters, need to be helped. I thank Aid to the Church in Need (ACN), which has helped us to face this crisis.

We know that ACN is one source of help, where do you get the rest from?

We have a few others, rich benefactors in Lebanon, who can help a little bit. In terms of healthcare services, the UN gives us about 10% of the budget of the dispensary. The big NGO which helps is ACN, in social issues, basic needs, clothes, milk, diapers for babies, hygiene kits, the basic for these refugees.

It is possible that the crisis in Syria will spread to Lebanon. If this happens, there is Syria on one side, Israel, with a closed border on the other, and the sea. Where will all these refugees, plus the new ones, go? Is there anywhere left to go?

Nowhere.

If this happens it will be a big war in the Middle East. Until now Lebanon is still stable in the Middle East, because the army has taken control of the situation. I don't know if the army will be able much longer, because it is a week army after 30 years of war. But if the war in Syria spreads to Lebanon it will be the end of the Middle East and the end of the presence of the Christians in the Middle East. We hope that this will not happen. If it does, it will be very difficult.

Lebanon is the country in the Middle East with the highest proportion of Christians. Do most of the Christians in Lebanon feel a special solidarity with the Christians from Syria and Iraq, or do they see them as a problem that they want to solve?

No, we see them as our brothers and sisters.

Winter is making life even more grim for refugees

They are like us. When the Islamic State took over Qaraqosh and all the Christians from Qaraqosh fled, many coming to Lebanon, the solidarity was exemplary. All the churches in Lebanon appealed and all the Christians collected a lot of food, a lot of clothes, a lot of money to help these refugees. We are poor, but even the poorest family gives something to help. It was really an example of Christian solidarity.

No, we don't see them as a problem, we are present to help them and to help ourselves at the same time. We are all a minority, refugees in the Middle East with this big crisis with the Islamic State. We are afraid, in Lebanon as well. We are waiting and praying a lot. Before coming I was thinking about St. Paul: “For you Lord we are facing all persecutions and all kinds of troubles, but we hope in you because you love us”, and our only hope now is the strength which comes from God.

The Shiites have been defending the Christians in Syria. Does the future of the Christians rely on an alliance with the Shia, including of course Iran?

I don't think so. As Christians in Lebanon, in the Middle East, all our lives I, myself also, lived with Muslims, Sunni and Shia. The Jihadists are not Muslim, in my opinion, they use Islam to spread their ideology. But I don't think that the Christians should count on the Sunnis or the Shias. Citizenship is for all, Christians, Sunnis and Shias. We share this country and we need to be recognized as Sunnis, Shias and Christians. I don't think we should be part of any... we are open to cooperate and share this country with our neighbours. We are not party to any political issues. In my opinion we can't count on any party. We need to cooperate with all the Muslims.

Has the response from Europe been what you expected?

Really I am shocked by this silence. There is a big silence about this genocide in the Middle East against the minorities, not just Christians. It is a big shock for me that Europe is so silent, sometimes to save a dog we have demonstrations in the streets. But every day there are lives destroyed in the Middle East and nobody says anything. It is a big silence and we are shocked. Why this silence? As if Human Life is without value. We are shocked, yes, we need a lot of support from this population, we need them to be awake! Why this silence? I can't understand.

Why are we still sending arms to the Middle East? To the jihadists or to the other parties?

We need them to stop sending arms, to stop the arms trade and then many things would change in the Middle East.

Pope Francis will be speaking to the European Parliament next Tuesday. What would you like him to say about the Middle East?

He is saying many beautiful things. He is the only voice to speak of peace and stopping sending weapons to the Middle East. I would like him to say please give the Middle East Peace. Enough war, enough lives destroyed. Enough children in the street, enough children forced to fight. Enough selling women in the market. Enough! It is inhuman and we need to be more human. I hope that he will awaken the conscience of the European Union.

What has happened in the Middle East is really incredible. We sell women in the market like objects. It is inhuman! Stop, please stop.

There are many different Christian churches in Lebanon. Have they been able to speak in one voice?

I don't know if they cooperate. I think there is much solidarity amongst them to face the crisis. Because it is a very critical moment in our history as Christians in the Middle East, a very critical moment. We stay or not, it is a question of life, of presence in the Middle East, that is why I think all the churches are united to face this crisis. We need to be united and to be close to each other to face this crisis. It is our survival, our life on the line.

Christian refugees in Erbil, Iraqi Kurdistan

Are there members of your congregation in Syria?

Yes. We have two communities in Syria. One in Homs and one in Maaloula, and a third on the border, in the Bekaa valley. The sisters are very afraid for their lives.

They remained in Homs and Maaloula?

Yes. They chose to stay with the population. They risk their lives, but as all the Christians who also took the decision to stay, we need to stay among our people. We can't abandon them. It is not possible.

Many people wonder how they can help. Materially they can give money or goods to Aid to the Church in Need, or other NGO's. In terms of prayer, what would you ask of them? Is there a special saint in Lebanon they could pray to?

Yes. Our patron is Our Lady of Lebanon. Our Lady of Lebanon and Our Lady of Fatima, of course, are the same. We need prayer. Before money, before anything else, we need our brothers and sisters in the Western churches to think about us, in heart and prayer. If we feel that we are supported by our sister churches in the west we will be stronger. We have faith of course. We need prayer, we need presence and we need people to be aware of our persecution.