This is
a full transcript, in the original English, of my recent interview with His
Beatitude Patriarch Gregory III of the Melkite Church. The news reports, in Portuguese
are here
and here.
Esta é uma transcrição integral, no inglês original, da
minha recente entrevista a Sua Beatitude o Patriarca Gregório III da Igreja Melquita.
As reportagens estão
aqui
e
aqui.
You were telling me that the other day on your
trip to Lebanon there were only four checkpoints, whereas before there would be
12. Is the situation in Syria improving?
The
first big tragedy was in Homs. Now it is peaceful in Homs and the people have
returned there. They are reconstructing their churches in Homs, in Yabroud, in
Qusayr, in Nabek. This is positive.
Around
Damascus there are still battles. My home town Darayya has now been liberated,
but was totally destroyed, including two churches and all our people's houses.
Maaloula
also has been liberated and the people, most of them, returned. We have about
125 or 130 families back and we are building for them not the whole house, but
one room per family, which means that they can be at home even in a small
place, without having to pay rent.
Damascus
itself was always peaceful, but you had daily rocket attacks, sometimes
hundreds of rockets per day, killing, destroying, it depends. But despite that,
life goes on.
Just
today [21st of October], we had rockets and our Cathedral was hit. Not much
damage, just a little. This was the fifth time our Patriarchate in Damascus was
hit by a bomb, but despite this we remain.
Now the
big problem is in the North of Syria and in Aleppo, which means the border to
Turkey and Iraq and to Jordan are closed now. This tells you where the
belligerants are coming from, from Jordan, Turkey, Iraq, but because Iraq is
weak now, and not under the control of the Government. This geographical
description shows us how the war is. The war is against Syria, in Syria. The
Holy Father said there is a third world war going on.
Now the
worst problem is in Aleppo. We had a meeting of bishops of Aleppo, we wanted to
have it in Aleppo, but because of the situation we were obliged to have it in
Damascus. They told us that there used to be four million people in Aleppo and
now there are one million. The others are displaced, not necessarily outside of
Syria. There were 150 thousand Christians in Aleppo, but now there are maybe 30
thousand.
All the
churches of the different communities are destroyed, more or less. The people
are in need of food, light, water... But they are still there.
Around
Damascus there are belligerants, but the army is advancing slowly.
Now our
problem is really how to get people to stay at home. Emigration is the biggest
danger for the Church in the Middle East, not only in Syria. Syria, Lebanon are
all under this influence, even Jordan. In Iraq, from around 1 million, or
perhaps 800 thousand, the Christian population is only around 350 thousand now.
In all of Syria, 55 thousand Christians displaced, inside or outside Syria, 50%
of doctors are out. This is hemmorhaging of the Syrian society, Christians and
Muslims alike.
The
future of Syria is very problematic. You have around three million children
without schools, these are the clients for ISIS in the future. That is why we
are very keen to work for the children in Syria, in the schools, and to rebuild
schools. My own school was destroyed, two thousand children were left with
nowhere to go. Everything was stolen.
This is
a very big tragedy, but in spite of this we have so much hope. You can't
believe how the people are crowded in the churches, especially for Lent. Every
day our churches are full. We have youth movements; our congregations, women,
men, young people, are filling our churches with social and pastoral
activities. I don't understand how the people react this way. Inspite of the
fear and the imigration, this is a complex situation of hope, of power,
generosity, fidelity, trust in the Lord and in the future.
|
Darayya |
Obviously the whole world is watching Aleppo
and there have been many accusations against Russia and the regime because of
the bombings. People are calling for a ceasefire...
First of
all, the Church is for reconciliation. Already I wrote a letter in 2013 saying
that the only way for the future of Syria and the church is reconciliation. So
we are apostles for reconciliation, for peace, for dialogue, for reconciliaiton
inside the society, not only for belligerants. This is our situation, our
position.
We are
also working with the children. We had an initiative to gather 1.2 million
signatures of children for peace, an 8 meter long sheet with words of children
for peace. We went with all of these documents to the European Union in
Brussels and Geneva, to speak abou the future, we were the messengers of the
children.
So this
is the real situation and position of the Church, rather of the Churches! We
have three Patriarchs in Damascus. Greek Orthodox, Syrian Orthodox and myself,
and several bishops in Syria. All of them have a common vision regarding the
situation, the government, the complot of this war, and so on.
For
example, Darayya, which now has been liberated but is destroyed, before the
destruction the people were happy, working, developed, and everything. A rebel
group entered and made life impossible. They subdued the civilians; the civilians
were under their control. Who has the responsibility to save these people? Who
is responsible for the citizens? If the rebels are taking my house, who will kick
them out?
The
Government might destroy my house... This is what happened to a house of my relatives*.
It was destroyed because a family came from outside and they rented a house
near him. But it was an arsenal for weapons. The government shelled the house,
and the house of my relatives was destroyed.
The same
happened with churches. When the belligerants came to Homs, in the midst of the
Old City of Homs, where the churches are, they turned the churches into their
strongholds... What to do? So you can say that most of the churches were
destroyed by the government. But why? Because they were no longer used as
churches!
|
Monastic life in Aleppo |
For
example, the very famous monastery of St. Bachus and Sergius, in Maaloula, it
was a central stronghold for the revolutionaries, the belligerants and for
ISIS. What to do? The belligerants brought the whole war into the houses, in
the old city, that is their strategy and that is the problem. Why, in Europe,
are they blind to say that the government is targeting these structures? Yes,
its true, but why? I can say this from my own experience, the same is happening
in Aleppo now.
The civillians in the rebel held area of
Aleppo, are they being used as human shields?
All of
them! This is the whole strategy in the whole five years of war. Starting with
Homs, Maaloula, my own town Darayya, the people were taken as shields to defend
the rebels. That is why the civillians were killed. They were not allowed to
go. Just like in Mossul now, not even the priests were allowed to go. They had
to be there in order for the Government not to shell.
Now they
can ask for ceasefires, but what to do next?
Would a ceasefire just drag this situation on?
Would the best solution be for the Government to end the siege as quickly as
possible, by taking the rest of the city?
A
ceasefire is always an act of mercy. We are in the mercy of God. Everything in
life is compromise. Even relations between husband and wife are about
compromise. The same here with your enemies, you have to have compromises to
protect the lives of the civillians. We have to think about that.
The
policy of the church is to alleviate as much as posisble this very harsh time
of the civillians.
Russia is seen by many Western countries as
being part of the problem, criminals bombing civillians. When I speak to
Christians from Syria they always have a very different idea of the Russians.
What is your view of the Russian involvement?
If I am
in danger, and you come to help me, can you help me without me? Without my
consent? Without my advice? Without my collaboration?
Please,
USA, come and fight! But with Syria and with Russia.
Let’s
not do politics. Let’s speak in a simple way, like simple people. Come together
Russia and America. Together. The European Union is no longer important, a
shame, but the truth. If the USA and Russia came together with Syria in one
month's time ISIS would be overcome. I am sure.
What is
ISIS? It is a myth. It is an instrument of evil. Of a battle of interests. That
is ISIS. It is nothing, not Islam, nothing at all!
Now
Syria has become a supermarket for superpowers. Where are these interests? In
Russia and in America. If they are ok and have common consent about their
interests, where their respective profits lie, the war will end.
Everything
is an instrument. Even the fighting between Shiites and Sunnis is historical,
but now it is an instrument. Even the killing of Christians is an instrument.
Nothing to do with the so called goal of the revolution. What can anybody in
Syria bring that is different from what was already done? It was not too bad,
not too good, but it was enough.
Who can
build something new? The so called opposition are from the same school as the
ones who are there. So they can bring nothing, nothing can be brought.
Reconciliation.
Together, America, Russia and Syria can bring forth ceasefire and peace and
also the renewal of Syria. We have to be renewed, we have to present a vision.
You can't end the war without vision. Russia and América can end this, but they
have to have a vision for Syria, and with Syria.
I am not
for Assad or for the regime; I am for Syria, which is a key society in the
Middle East. Not Lebanon, not Jordan, not Egypt, not Iraq, it is the most
important place where Christians are a little group, but living in a cohesive
society.
You have been criticized by leading figures in your
own Church. Several bishops have called for your resignation. Is resignation an
option?
I am for
the cannon law, which says that the Patriarchal See is vacant upon the death of
the Patriarch or by his own resignation. I like to tell my bishops "I love
you. Let us love eachother so that we can confess, love, and serve our Church
and make it a symbol of testimony for the Lord in this tragic situation for the
whole Christian Middle East"
Can you imagine a situation where you would
resign in the future? Or do you prefer to die in your post, as is traditional
among Eastern Patriarchs?
That is
up to God. I can't answer you, because I don't have that power. Let's just say
that I am here for the service of the Church and the future is in the hands of
God.
|
Patriarchs Laham, Shevchuk, Clemente and caridnal Sandri |
You are a special guest at the meeting of
European Eastern Catholic bishops, who are discussing the pastoral care of
migrants in the West. Have you come here to learn from them, or to share your
own experience?
I was
invited by them, especially by the Ukrainian Church, because I was in Lviv in
September, in the synod of the Ukrainian Church and they told me about this
meeting and invited me, and I was happy to come.
I am
very happy to have come because it very important learn and to give our own
experience and especially our own vision of the very tragic situation of emigration.
Emigration,
for us, is very important, very problematic. It is very problemetic for
Christians in Europe and for Muslims in Europe, and in encountering a region
which is no longer a Christian Europe, but an area of globalisation, an area of
Laicité, and in some respects atheist. This is a very big danger, more
dangerous and more acute than the whole war in Syria.
I tell
you the result of the war, migration of Christians and of Muslims, from both
sides, it is a bigger danger and more harmful for the world than the war in
Syria. Therefore I proposed, today to bring this theme of the results and
dangers of the emigration of Christians from the Middle East, both for the
Middle East and for them in Europe, and for the Muslims from the Middle East
and in Europe.
For me
it is a very current and urgent to have a special assembly of the bishops
conferences of Europe about this theme. Europe is not prepared to have such a
tsunami of migrants, both Christians and Muslims. How to cope with Muslims and
Christians coming with their own identity. Islam has a different approach that
Christians in Europe. That is a very big danger for...
*His Beatitude here used the word “parents”, but considering his age, and the fact that the word Parent in Latin languages actually means relative rather “mother and father”, I have changed it to relative.
This is the second time I interview His Beatitude. You can read the first interview, from November 2014, here.