“Western silence on genocide against minorities in Iraq is shocking”

Sister Hanan Youssef

Full transcript of my interview with sister Hanan Youssef, of the Good Shepherd Sisters, who works with refugees in Lebanon. News item, in Portuguese, here.

Transcrição integral, no inglês original, da minha entrevista à irmã Hanan Youssef, das Irmãs do Bom Pastor, que trabalha com refugiados no Líbano. A reportagem pode ser lida aqui.

You work in Lebanon. Are you Lebanese?

Yes, I am Lebanese. I was born in the South of Lebanon, near the border with Israel, but I had to leave when I was 8 years old, I couldn't go back, because Israel occupied this area for many years. After the liberation it was taken by Hezbollah. I never saw it again.

Now I am in the Upper North of Beirut, in a Shia Muslim area, but we also have Christians, Sunnis, Iraqi refugees, Syrian refugees, a mixed population.

Are you Maronite?

Yes, I am Maronite, it is the biggest church in Lebanon. It is a Catholic Church. St. Maron, patron of this church, lived in the fourth century. We have always been Catholic. We have our own oriental liturgy, we have married priests, which shocks the Latin rite a little bit, but we are Catholic.

Your main work is with refugees. Are most from Iraq?

Yes.

The Good Shepherd sisters opened a centre for street children in 2005. In 2006, with the War against Israel, we took charge of a dispensary, a clinic, St. Anthony's clinic. And we welcomed 5000 Shia refugees from an area which Israel bombarded. After that they left and we started to welcome Iraqi refugees, from 2008 to now. All the Christian Chaldean refugees from Iraq came through our centre.

We took a decision as a congregation to be close to this population, because they were very disoriented and needed lots of help, a lot of listening. Their Arabic is a little bit difficult to understand by other NGO's, so they felt more comfortable to come to our centre and all of them, without exception, liked coming here and we took the decision to welcome them, to be beside them and that is why we continue to receive them until today, with the crisis in Mosul, caused by the jihadists, many Iraqis fled Iraq.

In the beginning we welcomed a lot of young couples with their children, they were leaving Iraq forever, but nowadays we are welcoming also elderly people.

Before travelling to Portugal I received a blind woman, in a wheelchair, who is 85 years old. She was forced to leave her home. She was disoriented, very sad, very depressed. I was really sad. I thought to myself, what if it were me, blind and 85 years old, forced to leave my house, my area and all my life behind me? I was really speechless before her.

It is an inhuman situation, This population is forced to leave everything and to flee.

This woman and these more recent refugees are the ones coming from Mossul and the Nineveh Plains... We had heard that many were taking refuge in Arbil, but there are also some travelling to Lebanon?

Yes. When they reach Arbil, if they have money to buy a plane ticket they choose to go to Lebanon and submit a request to UNHCR to get a Visa to go to the West. All of Iraqis dream of leaving Iraq forever. Young people, but now also the elderly, are forced to do it.

Before coming over I also received two young men who came to the dispensary and they were crying: “Sister, we don't need help, we need work”. I listened to them. They said: “Sister, our parents sold everything, jewellery, cars, everything to buy plane tickets for us. We are here now, but we need to bring our family with us. Please help us to find work, to be able to pay for the ticket for our parents.”

Christian refugees in Iraq, fleeing Islamic State

And they were crying. It is unusual to see oriental men crying. I was disoriented and speechless before them, there have been many cases like that.

What is happening in Iraq is genocide. I said that 10 years ago. We are facing a very big genocide in Iraq. It is empty… all the Christians are outside Iraq now. In 1996 there were one million, nowadays we talk about 150.000, it is really a big genocide in Iraq.

Of course there is also a terrible situation in Syria. Do you also have Syrian refugees?

Of course. Our centre receives refugees from Syria, Iraq, other minorities who don't have any place to go. We offer them three kinds of service: Primary healthcare, social help and psychological help.

We have 32 doctors, of all specialities, to help them, because in Lebanon healthcare is private and very expensive, the state is unable to offer the refugees help, because there are four million Lebanese and we received 2.5 million refugees, more than half of the population of Lebanon.

Lebanon has been at war for about 30 years. The entire infrastructure has been destroyed. We don't have enough schools for all the children, enough places in hospitals, enough potable water. It is a big, big challenge.

It is not a developed country, because of the war everything has been destroyed, and to receive so many refugees is a huge crisis. They become poorer and poorer, with no jobs, the Syrian refugees make the society very weak and vulnerable. They are a huge number and among these refugees many jihadists have entered.

The borders are open, with no control, which is why many Jihadists are now in Lebanon, causing trouble, fighting against the Lebanese army, to control a Sunni majority area, as you hear in the news, every day we have soldiers killed by jihadists, and many such things.

The Syrian refugees live in Lebanon with no job. They are killing, stealing, they are violent. They need a place to live but the state is unable to help them and the international community didn't help Lebanon as much as we need. That is why there is really a big, big crisis in Lebanon. That is why we, as the Good Shepherd Sisters, need to be helped. I thank Aid to the Church in Need (ACN), which has helped us to face this crisis.

We know that ACN is one source of help, where do you get the rest from?

We have a few others, rich benefactors in Lebanon, who can help a little bit. In terms of healthcare services, the UN gives us about 10% of the budget of the dispensary. The big NGO which helps is ACN, in social issues, basic needs, clothes, milk, diapers for babies, hygiene kits, the basic for these refugees.

It is possible that the crisis in Syria will spread to Lebanon. If this happens, there is Syria on one side, Israel, with a closed border on the other, and the sea. Where will all these refugees, plus the new ones, go? Is there anywhere left to go?

Nowhere.

If this happens it will be a big war in the Middle East. Until now Lebanon is still stable in the Middle East, because the army has taken control of the situation. I don't know if the army will be able much longer, because it is a week army after 30 years of war. But if the war in Syria spreads to Lebanon it will be the end of the Middle East and the end of the presence of the Christians in the Middle East. We hope that this will not happen. If it does, it will be very difficult.

Lebanon is the country in the Middle East with the highest proportion of Christians. Do most of the Christians in Lebanon feel a special solidarity with the Christians from Syria and Iraq, or do they see them as a problem that they want to solve?

No, we see them as our brothers and sisters.

Winter is making life even more grim for refugees

They are like us. When the Islamic State took over Qaraqosh and all the Christians from Qaraqosh fled, many coming to Lebanon, the solidarity was exemplary. All the churches in Lebanon appealed and all the Christians collected a lot of food, a lot of clothes, a lot of money to help these refugees. We are poor, but even the poorest family gives something to help. It was really an example of Christian solidarity.

No, we don't see them as a problem, we are present to help them and to help ourselves at the same time. We are all a minority, refugees in the Middle East with this big crisis with the Islamic State. We are afraid, in Lebanon as well. We are waiting and praying a lot. Before coming I was thinking about St. Paul: “For you Lord we are facing all persecutions and all kinds of troubles, but we hope in you because you love us”, and our only hope now is the strength which comes from God.

The Shiites have been defending the Christians in Syria. Does the future of the Christians rely on an alliance with the Shia, including of course Iran?

I don't think so. As Christians in Lebanon, in the Middle East, all our lives I, myself also, lived with Muslims, Sunni and Shia. The Jihadists are not Muslim, in my opinion, they use Islam to spread their ideology. But I don't think that the Christians should count on the Sunnis or the Shias. Citizenship is for all, Christians, Sunnis and Shias. We share this country and we need to be recognized as Sunnis, Shias and Christians. I don't think we should be part of any... we are open to cooperate and share this country with our neighbours. We are not party to any political issues. In my opinion we can't count on any party. We need to cooperate with all the Muslims.

Has the response from Europe been what you expected?

Really I am shocked by this silence. There is a big silence about this genocide in the Middle East against the minorities, not just Christians. It is a big shock for me that Europe is so silent, sometimes to save a dog we have demonstrations in the streets. But every day there are lives destroyed in the Middle East and nobody says anything. It is a big silence and we are shocked. Why this silence? As if Human Life is without value. We are shocked, yes, we need a lot of support from this population, we need them to be awake! Why this silence? I can't understand.

Why are we still sending arms to the Middle East? To the jihadists or to the other parties?

We need them to stop sending arms, to stop the arms trade and then many things would change in the Middle East.

Pope Francis will be speaking to the European Parliament next Tuesday. What would you like him to say about the Middle East?

He is saying many beautiful things. He is the only voice to speak of peace and stopping sending weapons to the Middle East. I would like him to say please give the Middle East Peace. Enough war, enough lives destroyed. Enough children in the street, enough children forced to fight. Enough selling women in the market. Enough! It is inhuman and we need to be more human. I hope that he will awaken the conscience of the European Union.

What has happened in the Middle East is really incredible. We sell women in the market like objects. It is inhuman! Stop, please stop.

There are many different Christian churches in Lebanon. Have they been able to speak in one voice?

I don't know if they cooperate. I think there is much solidarity amongst them to face the crisis. Because it is a very critical moment in our history as Christians in the Middle East, a very critical moment. We stay or not, it is a question of life, of presence in the Middle East, that is why I think all the churches are united to face this crisis. We need to be united and to be close to each other to face this crisis. It is our survival, our life on the line.

Christian refugees in Erbil, Iraqi Kurdistan

Are there members of your congregation in Syria?

Yes. We have two communities in Syria. One in Homs and one in Maaloula, and a third on the border, in the Bekaa valley. The sisters are very afraid for their lives.

They remained in Homs and Maaloula?

Yes. They chose to stay with the population. They risk their lives, but as all the Christians who also took the decision to stay, we need to stay among our people. We can't abandon them. It is not possible.

Many people wonder how they can help. Materially they can give money or goods to Aid to the Church in Need, or other NGO's. In terms of prayer, what would you ask of them? Is there a special saint in Lebanon they could pray to?

Yes. Our patron is Our Lady of Lebanon. Our Lady of Lebanon and Our Lady of Fatima, of course, are the same. We need prayer. Before money, before anything else, we need our brothers and sisters in the Western churches to think about us, in heart and prayer. If we feel that we are supported by our sister churches in the west we will be stronger. We have faith of course. We need prayer, we need presence and we need people to be aware of our persecution.

"Most Christians accept Hezbollah"

Full transcript of my interview with his grace Archbishop Issam John Darwish, of the Melkite Archdiocese of Furzol, Zahle and the Bekaa. News report (in Portuguese) here.

Transcrição completa, no inglês original, da minha entrevista com o Arcebispo Issam John Darwish, da arquidiocese melquita de Furzol, Zahle e do Bekaa. A notícia respectiva está aqui.

You are here to speak on Religious Freedom in Lebanon, what is the situation in your country like?

First, let me thank you for welcoming me to this station, and thanks to the Church in Need for inviting me to Portugal to speak about religious freedom.

In the Arab world there are some difficulties in Religious Freedom. But I will start with Lebanon. There we don't have any problems, because we are free to worship in any religion. We have 18 sects and anyone is free to worship. The political power in Lebanon is divided between the 18 communities.

In Syria and in Iraq the constitution also permits freedom of religion, but actually, if you have a mixed marriage between a Christian and a Muslim, they must register it under Islam.

In other Arabic countries it is very hard to worship as you like. In the Gulf they have started to build churches, but for example in Saudi Arabia we are not permitted to identify as Christians.

The Arab spring did not advance anything in the Arab world, neither democracy nor religious freedom. But we hope, in the future, after the events in Syria and in Iraq, that we can have a transparent Islam, share our lives and be free to worship as we like.

At the moment the situation seems better in Egypt, though...

Yes. There is more peace now.

Last month I was in Egypt. I was invited by the minister of Tourism, to open the Holy Family Road. Jesus, Mary and Joseph went to Egypt, to 25 places, and the tourism minister chose seven places with the Orthodox Patriarchate of the Copts for tourism sites. Representatives of all the churches were there for the inauguration.

With the new president, and the new regime, it is more peaceful. They respect all religions and we hope that will continue in Egypt.

Lebanon is, as you were saying, a special case. What is the situation of relationships among different Christians? It seems that they are divided.

No, the Christians are not divided politically.

There are two parties, one which sides with the Sunnis and one with the Shiites. But it is not a religious divide, it is a political divide. There is a dialogue between the Christian communities and we live together as brother and sister.

In my town we celebrate the liturgy and the mass together, we celebrate feasts together, and in Zahle, where I am a bishop, the bishops meet every month and decide things together. There are no problems within Christian communities.

But as you said, there are two parties, one allied with the Shiites, one with the Sunnis. Does that weaken the voice of the Christians?

I don't think so because the mentality of the Christians is more democratic. The diversity in the Christian community is for the benefit of the country. That is why we try to avoid the war, we try to be part of the society and we like to be together. I am the head of the Christian-Muslim dialogue in Lebanon. I speak in the name of all the Catholics in Lebanon, we have good relations with the Sunnis and the Shias, we live together, we are together for each other's feasts, and we try to help those Muslims raise their voices against the jihadists, the fundamentalists, that we see in Iraq and Syria.

Bekaa Valley

Most of the threats to Christians seem to be coming from radical Sunni factions. Could the future of Christianity in the Middle East be tied up to Shia Islam?

I think we should be close to both, to Sunnis and Shiites. We are a bridge between communities and would like to play this role to bring them together.

Iran has a big influence in the region. What is the situation like in Iran at the moment?

I don't have the impression that Iran is radical. They are very open. I know a few Iranians, who have come to Lebanon, and I know the Shiites, they are very open now and more open to the Christian people.

Iran supports Hezbollah, largely through Syria. If the regime in Syria were to fall, how would that affect the balance of power in Lebanon?

It will be a big problem for the Christians in Lebanon and in Syria. We know that the Shiites are influenced by Iran and the Sunnis are influenced by Saudi Arabia. I think when the problems started in Egypt we started to have a problem in Lebanon and Syria. That is why last month I told a few ministers in Egypt to use their influence over the Sunnis in Lebanon, because I know that the Egyptian way is more moderate than the Wahhabis from Saudi Arabia.

How has Lebanon managed to avoid being drawn into the conflict until now?

From the beginning of the war I said in one of my speeches in Lebanon: “Be careful, the people in Lebanon will be influenced by the war in Syria.” And we are now... the jihadists, the Daash [Islamic State], the Al-Nusra Front, are now on the border of Lebanon. They are not far from my town, Zahle, they are in the mountains. And every day there is a fight between the Lebanese army and the Jihadists.

Also, Hezbollah defend, with the army, the border of Lebanon. But the Government has been very sensible, the Sunnis, the Shiites and the government, work together to avoid the big problem in Lebanon. I think that now the situation will improve, after the events of Tripoli, last week, where the Lebanese army removed the jihadists from the city and Northern Lebanon.

Lebanese Christians were the only ones who, during conflicts, organized themselves into armed militias. What lessons does that hold for the current situations of Christians persecuted in the Middle East?

I don't think we should have militias. We learned from the past that this is not the way for peace. The way for peace is only through dialogue between the communities. Weapons and arms are not helping to get peace. That is why all Lebanese parties are now against militias in Lebanon.

Bishops have been almost unanimous in saying that they do not want a safe-haven or independent country for Christians in the Middle East. In your opinion, however, should other communities like the Kurds have their own state?

Apparently yes, there is a country for the Kurds, but as Christians we don't like to have a country for our people. We like to be with everybody, because we are the salt of the society and we like to be friends with everybody.

Hezbollah soldiers in Lebanon

You were born in Syria… how has the civil war there affected you?

I still have family in Damascus. I am worried about the situation, but apparently Damascus and the big cities are now safer than three years ago, when the war started in Syria.

I call for the heads of state in Europe to stop sending arms to Syria and Iraq, to understand the problems better, to understand our way of democracy. We cannot have the European democracy. The Arabic world should start to think how they can have their own democracy, maybe in the near future we will find this way.

You say that European democracy does not work in the Arab world, but Lebanon has a functional democracy...

Half of the population of Lebanon is Christian, and the Christians are more adequate for Democracy and they like to have democracy. Even the Lebanese Muslims are apt to have democracy, because Lebanon is a unique state, the only state in the Arab world with a Christian president.

In Lebanon Hezbollah still have their own army and have resisted attempts to demiliterize. How do the Christians see the fact that there is this party in Lebanon with its own army?

Most of the Christians accept now presence of Hezbollah, because they have defended the Christian villages in Syria, like Maaloula. Maaloula was liberated by Hezbollah and other Christian villages in Syria also. That is why we now see Hezbollah as resistance against Israel and the jihadists in Syria, and especially against Daesh.

You said that it would be bad for the Christians if the regime fell in Syria. But do you see a future for Bashar al-Assad in power?

I would not like to see Daesh take the position of Assad. Assad, even with his faults, in Syria, is better than Daesh, Al-Nusra and other jihadists. At least we know that in his regime Christians are free to worship, to build churches, and the Government gave some land to help build their own monasteries and churches. I think that if we look between Syria and other Arabic countries, it is easier to live in Syria than other Arabic countries, except, of course, Lebanon.

“The end is near for Bashar”, but “Free Syrian Army are gangsters”

Transcrição integral da entrevista a Alfred, um sírio católico de Rito Latino, que trabalhava na indústria cimenteira e fugiu de Aleppo para Beirute quando começou a violência. Notícia aqui.

Full transcript of the interview with Alfred, a Syrian Latin Rite Catholic who worked in the Cement industry and escaped from Aleppo to Beirute when the fighting started. News item (in Portuguese) here.

Why and when did you leave Aleppo?

Before the fighting started in Aleppo we started going back and forth to Beirut. The last two weeks were the most dangerous in Aleppo, so everybody left

What do you believe is going to happen in Syria?

As you know, the first thing that happened was that most Christians who were well off left the country. The ones who were not well off stayed in their houses, I am calling everyday to know about the community. Nobody knows about the future, about the regime. It’s all politics, and deals under the table.

In your case, personally, would you like the regime to be replaced?

For the Christian’s sake the regime is better as it protects minorities. That is what the Christians want, for the time being. But for the long term everybody needs some changes. Nobody believes in the reforms anymore, in all these promises that have led to nothing. We have been waiting for 12 years, nothing really happened for the people. Maybe the country improved a bit, but everything is in the hands of the minorities and a circle around the president.

Do you believe that if the opposition take over they will protect the Christians?

The opposition that you see on TV, they are gangsters. The Free Army, I don’t know what their purpose is, just the fall of the regime. They steel, ask for ransoms. Just two days ago they attacked one of the Christian clubs in Aleppo, they swam in the swimming pool and destroyed all the alcohol, then they wrote on the wall, “try and drink alcohol again, and you’ll see what will happen”. You are seeing some radical Islamic groups coming with this free army, it’s a mixture of everything.

Do you know any Christians who were active in the conflict? Either for or against the regime?

No. Christians are not participating, they are not taking any position. They have no interest. Everybody knows that if they join the opposition or the militias, their punishment will be death. The others think that if they are martyred they will go to heaven, that is why they are going. But Christians, they have brains, they have families, they don’t do these things.

You also do not see Alawites going to the Free Army. The minorities are not taking any position. But there are Christians who are part of the regular army, I have cousins and others who are in the Syrian army.

They don’t think of deserting?

No, that is not the case. When you hear about the big names of deserters, these are people who are bought. Like the prime-minister, this guy has been paid something and deserted, it is very obvious.

Have you been well received by the Lebanese Christians?

Most of the Syrians who have come here have a second house in Beirut, the others are renting houses. I personally purchased an apartment last year, before the problems. But people who arrived just now are not buying, because it is not time to spend money, everybody is putting money on the side.

But in terms of solidarity and friendship, have the Christians in Lebanon received the Christians from Syria as well as they should?

I don’t personally know any contacts between Christians from here and from there. The ones who came here are well off, they pay their own expenses, there is no evacuation for the time being. The other Christians from Aleppo stayed in Aleppo, because they can’t leave. The roads are cut off, it’s impossible to travel on the highway, and the flights are fully booked for the next month. The people have to wait two, three, four weeks on waiting lists to get on a plane.

I’ll give you an example, taking a taxi from town to the airport should cost maximum 10 dollars. Today, the taxi will charge 200 dollars to take you to the airport. Who can pay this kind of money? And then catching a plane to Beirut or to Damascus… and living in Beirut is expensive compared to Syria. That is why Christians are staying in their homes, most of them.

People who were in Beirut have told me that there have not been many contacts between Christians in Lebanon and Syria, some even complain of a cold reception.

Sure. Here they are Maronite, and there is no connection between the churches. In Syria we have 13 bishops, and there is no coordination between them. I know some of them personally, they are not coordinating. Each one is taking care of his own community. I went to my Bishop about 8 or 9 months ago, and I asked him why they didn’t complain to the Government, and speak of the demands of the Christians? Why didn’t they ask for our rights? Then the problems happened and one day the revolution started, then it was too late to ask about reforms, nobody asked about the reforms.

Would it be better if the different bishops were more united?

It’s like Catholics and Orthodox. Of course it would be better, but they are never at the same table agreeing. The problems between Catholics and Orthodox, it’s the same as what we have in Syria.

But even among the different Catholic bishops?

I don’t believe it, because everybody has a big community to satisfy, and they are not even able to satisfy their community. The financial situation of the churches is very poor. My church has about 20 thousand dollars a year to distribute to the poor families, and each family gets about 20 dollars a month. This is all they can do.

Do you think you will be returning to Syria?

Returning is obvious for us. We can’t live in another country. We love our country, but in this situation everything is on hold, until this fight ends. Now the army has entered Aleppo by land and we have been promised that they are trying to clean everything in one or two weeks maximum. This is what I heard, but I don’t know if this will end or not. Like in Damascus, the fourth division entered the city and they cleaned everything.

But you have insurgents from outside. I have a friend who was kidnapped last week with four other Christians, and he told me there were black people, people from Libya, from other countries… There is a mixture, they ask for money, they are gangsters. He said they saw weapons that they’d never seen in their lives.

The king of Jordan said that Assad might try and set up an Alawite enclave if he feels he can’t hold onto power. Could that happen?

No. They will not try to divide Syria. The president’s duty is to maintain whatever he can until he leaves, but of course the end is near. He will not survive. The American’s, Europeans, 80% of the world is against him. And now with these problems, and the hatred in people in Syria…

My opinion, if there is an election, I don’t know if he would even run. He’s fed up with this. If I were him I would ask for political exile, but I don’t know if he will. Everybody is defecting around him, his best friend Tlass defected. Then there was the explosion in Damascus. Nobody is around him now, nobody knows who is ruling the country now. It’s “run for your life”. If you are kidnapped it is better to pay the ransom than to ask the Government for help, because nobody will come. They are sometimes part of the corruption, the gangsters, you don’t know if the police are involved. Its chaos, it can’t get worse.

You have access to western news outlets. Do you think they are portraying the truth on the ground?

No. There are some exaggerations. I hear people from the States going to Aljazeera and asking how they can give money to the Free Army to buy weapons. This is not a civilized way. They are destroying the country. Maybe supporting Democracy and sitting around a table, this would be more civilized, but the embargoes, they are killing the country. Business has stopped, we are going backwards. We didn’t see any support from the west, food or humanitarian aid, nothing happened. The politicians just go on TV and pretend to do something good, but they are not cooperating at all with Syria.