Full transcript of my interview with his grace Archbishop Issam John Darwish, of the Melkite Archdiocese of Furzol, Zahle and the Bekaa.
News report (in Portuguese) here.
Transcrição completa, no inglês original, da minha entrevista com o Arcebispo Issam John Darwish, da arquidiocese melquita de Furzol, Zahle e do Bekaa.
A notícia respectiva está aqui.
You are here to speak on Religious Freedom in
Lebanon, what is the situation in your country like?
First,
let me thank you for welcoming me to this station, and thanks to the Church in
Need for inviting me to Portugal to speak about religious freedom.
In the
Arab world there are some difficulties in Religious Freedom. But I will start
with Lebanon. There we don't have any problems, because we are free to worship
in any religion. We have 18 sects and anyone is free to worship. The political
power in Lebanon is divided between the 18 communities.
In Syria
and in Iraq the constitution also permits freedom of religion, but actually, if
you have a mixed marriage between a Christian and a Muslim, they must register
it under Islam.
In other
Arabic countries it is very hard to worship as you like. In the Gulf they have
started to build churches, but for example in Saudi Arabia we are not permitted
to identify as Christians.
The Arab
spring did not advance anything in the Arab world, neither democracy nor
religious freedom. But we hope, in the future, after the events in Syria and in
Iraq, that we can have a transparent Islam, share our lives and be free to
worship as we like.
At the moment the situation seems better in
Egypt, though...
Yes.
There is more peace now.
Last
month I was in Egypt. I was invited by the minister of Tourism, to open the
Holy Family Road. Jesus, Mary and Joseph went to Egypt, to 25 places, and the
tourism minister chose seven places with the Orthodox Patriarchate of the Copts
for tourism sites. Representatives of all the churches were there for the inauguration.
With the
new president, and the new regime, it is more peaceful. They respect all
religions and we hope that will continue in Egypt.
Lebanon is, as you were saying, a special case.
What is the situation of relationships among different Christians? It seems
that they are divided.
No, the
Christians are not divided politically.
There
are two parties, one which sides with the Sunnis and one with the Shiites. But
it is not a religious divide, it is a political divide. There is a dialogue
between the Christian communities and we live together as brother and sister.
In my
town we celebrate the liturgy and the mass together, we celebrate feasts
together, and in Zahle, where I am a bishop, the bishops meet every month and
decide things together. There are no problems within Christian communities.
But as you said, there are two parties, one
allied with the Shiites, one with the Sunnis. Does that weaken the voice of the
Christians?
I don't
think so because the mentality of the Christians is more democratic. The
diversity in the Christian community is for the benefit of the country. That is
why we try to avoid the war, we try to be part of the society and we like to be
together. I am the head of the Christian-Muslim dialogue in Lebanon. I speak in
the name of all the Catholics in Lebanon, we have good relations with the
Sunnis and the Shias, we live together, we are together for each other's
feasts, and we try to help those Muslims raise their voices against the
jihadists, the fundamentalists, that we see in Iraq and Syria.
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| Bekaa Valley |
Most of the threats to Christians seem to be
coming from radical Sunni factions. Could the future of Christianity in the
Middle East be tied up to Shia Islam?
I think
we should be close to both, to Sunnis and Shiites. We are a bridge between
communities and would like to play this role to bring them together.
Iran has a big influence in the region. What is
the situation like in Iran at the moment?
I don't
have the impression that Iran is radical. They are very open. I know a few Iranians,
who have come to Lebanon, and I know the Shiites, they are very open now and
more open to the Christian people.
Iran supports Hezbollah, largely through Syria.
If the regime in Syria were to fall, how would that affect the balance of power
in Lebanon?
It will
be a big problem for the Christians in Lebanon and in Syria. We know that the
Shiites are influenced by Iran and the Sunnis are influenced by Saudi Arabia. I
think when the problems started in Egypt we started to have a problem in Lebanon
and Syria. That is why last month I told a few ministers in Egypt to use their
influence over the Sunnis in Lebanon, because I know that the Egyptian way is
more moderate than the Wahhabis from Saudi Arabia.
How has Lebanon managed to avoid being drawn
into the conflict until now?
From the
beginning of the war I said in one of my speeches in Lebanon: “Be careful, the
people in Lebanon will be influenced by the war in Syria.” And we are now...
the jihadists, the Daash [Islamic State], the Al-Nusra Front, are now on the
border of Lebanon. They are not far from my town, Zahle, they are in the
mountains. And every day there is a fight between the Lebanese army and the
Jihadists.
Also,
Hezbollah defend, with the army, the border of Lebanon. But the Government has
been very sensible, the Sunnis, the Shiites and the government, work together
to avoid the big problem in Lebanon. I think that now the situation will
improve, after the events of Tripoli, last week, where the Lebanese army
removed the jihadists from the city and Northern Lebanon.
Lebanese Christians were the only ones who,
during conflicts, organized themselves into armed militias. What lessons does
that hold for the current situations of Christians persecuted in the Middle
East?
I don't
think we should have militias. We learned from the past that this is not the
way for peace. The way for peace is only through dialogue between the
communities. Weapons and arms are not helping to get peace. That is why all
Lebanese parties are now against militias in Lebanon.
Bishops have been almost unanimous in saying
that they do not want a safe-haven or independent country for Christians in the
Middle East. In your opinion, however, should other communities like the Kurds
have their own state?
Apparently
yes, there is a country for the Kurds, but as Christians we don't like to have
a country for our people. We like to be with everybody, because we are the salt
of the society and we like to be friends with everybody.
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| Hezbollah soldiers in Lebanon |
You were born in Syria… how has the civil war
there affected you?
I still
have family in Damascus. I am worried about the situation, but apparently
Damascus and the big cities are now safer than three years ago, when the war
started in Syria.
I call
for the heads of state in Europe to stop sending arms to Syria and Iraq, to understand
the problems better, to understand our way of democracy. We cannot have the
European democracy. The Arabic world should start to think how they can have
their own democracy, maybe in the near future we will find this way.
You say that European democracy does not work
in the Arab world, but Lebanon has a functional democracy...
Half of
the population of Lebanon is Christian, and the Christians are more adequate
for Democracy and they like to have democracy. Even the Lebanese Muslims are
apt to have democracy, because Lebanon is a unique state, the only state in the
Arab world with a Christian president.
In Lebanon Hezbollah still have their own army
and have resisted attempts to demiliterize. How do the Christians see the fact
that there is this party in Lebanon with its own army?
Most of
the Christians accept now presence of Hezbollah, because they have defended the
Christian villages in Syria, like Maaloula. Maaloula was liberated by Hezbollah
and other Christian villages in Syria also. That is why we now see Hezbollah as
resistance against Israel and the jihadists in Syria, and especially against
Daesh.
You said that it would be bad for the
Christians if the regime fell in Syria. But do you see a future for Bashar
al-Assad in power?
I would not
like to see Daesh take the position of Assad. Assad, even with his faults, in
Syria, is better than Daesh, Al-Nusra and other jihadists. At least we know
that in his regime Christians are free to worship, to build churches, and the
Government gave some land to help build their own monasteries and churches. I
think that if we look between Syria and other Arabic countries, it is easier to
live in Syria than other Arabic countries, except, of course, Lebanon.
