"Christians were given three choices, Yazidis only two: 'Convert or die'"

This is a full transcript of my interview with Mirza Dinnayi, advisor for the Kurdish Regional Government and Yazidi activist, who spends his time between Iraq and Germany. The news report, in Portuguese, is here.

Transcrição integral da minha entrevista a Mirza Dinnayi, conselheiro do Governo Regional Curdo e activista pela causa dos yazidi, que passa o seu tempo entre o Iraque e a Alemanha. A reportagem pode ser lida aqui.

Who are the yazidis?

The Yazidis are an ancient religion, about 5000 years old, they are about 500,000 in Iraq and outside of Iraq there are communities in Turkey, Syria, Armenia, Georgia and also a big community in Germany and other countries. Altogether there are about 1 million, half of them are in Iraq. The biggest community is from the Sinjar region – where there are about 320.000 – which was attacked by ISIS.

Because the Yazidi religion is one of the oldest monotheistic religions, believing in one God, although different from Islam and Christianity, they were attacked by Islamic State, which killed more than 3000, kidnapped more than 5000 and raped and enslaved thousands of girls and women. They they say the Yazidis are infidels, in the eyes of the Islamic State, because they are not mentioned in the Koran, which is why they kill them. Now we have more than 400,000 who escaped from their houses from Sinjar and the other areas of the Ninevah plains which are now under the control of ISIS.

What has happened to the communities which had to flee, did they all find refuge with the Kurds?

Yes, we have 400,000 Yazidi refugees in Kurdistan.

What conditions are they living in?

The conditions are very bad, because most of the tents in these camps are very simple tents, which are not prepared for the Winter or the cold. Also the tents which were distributed by UNHCR are not fireproof, they burn in 45 seconds, they are made of nylon so with a simple fire they are gone in 45 seconds.

Every week there are fire accidents in the tents, there are health problems. They are living in a very bad situation, there are no economic perspectives for the people, the people have no resources, no houses, and the local and Iraqi government cannot help them because they are too many. The international organizations are not enough because the situation is very bad and they cannot fill all the needs.

We are talking in general about refugees, but of course many of these people are your friends and family…

Yes, of course. My own town of 35 thousand people, all of them escaped and all of them are living in these tents.

Yazidis being evacuated from Sinjar

Did the fact that they were persecuted bring the Christians and the Yazidis closer together?

The Yazidi and Christian communities are still friends. In this situation they have the same problem with ISIS, with one difference; the Christians were not immediately attacked. During the occupation of Mosul they were given three choices, to convert, flee or pay a tax, the Yazidis were only given two choices: convert or be killed.

Also, ISIS did not take hostages from the Christian population, because they say the Christian religion is mentioned in the Koran, so they can be treated a little bit better than the Yazidis. But both Christians and Yazidis are suffering very much at the hands of ISIS.

What solution do you think is possible for minorities in Iraq? Do you defend the creation of a safe haven, as some defend, or do you believe that these minorities should have their own defence forces?

I think the international community is now responsible for finding a solution for these minorities in Iraq and there are two solutions which should be done, one of them at least. The first is to establish an autonomous region with international support and international peacekeeping forces support in this area of Sinjar and Nineveh plains, or otherwise to help these people leave Islamic countries, because we don't know what will happen in the coming years. We don't know if a new Islamic group will be established. ISIS had roots in Al-Qaeda and Al-Qaeda had roots in Iraq...

Every day there is another radical Islamist group and if there is no solution for this area, to protect these people and to establish peace in this country, it will be impossible to remain.

It is very difficult, most of the people there are helpless and the international community has unfortunately been silent and has not supported these minorities in Iraq.

We know that some Yazidis have chosen to remain in Sinjar mountain and some have taken up arms to defend themselves. Why have they decided to remain in this mountain, where they are more exposed to the Islamic State?*

In the mountain we have some religious heritage, some Yazidi temples. We have some fighters, because they are sure that nobody will help them, the situation of the IDPs in Kurdistan is already very bad so they decided to stay.

We have about 8000 people, some of them are fighters. We have 1250 families, or more, there. They decided to stay because they have no perspectives in Kurdistan or outside. They think it is better to die there than to be refugees in a camp, in a tent, without perspectives, without anything.

Every Yazidi is now waiting to know what the international community ca do for them. Will they support us politically? But until now it has not happened, unfortunately.

Do you believe the Islamic State can be defeated, and how?

What has been done against the Islamic State until now has been very week. We cannot win the war against the Islamic State with only airstrikes. We need forces on the ground, not only from the international community, we need them also from the Sunni world, they should fight ISIS, they should stand against the Islamic State because it was established with a background of Islamic Religion. Now it is the responsibility of the Islamic world, especially the Sunnis, to define themselves, they work against ISIS and the fundamentalist Islam. This is their responsibility, to fight, not only through air raids, but on the ground. We need forces on the ground, otherwise it is not possible to fight ISIS.

ISIS was able to flourish because of widespread discontent among the Sunni population. Do you foresee a future in which Sunnis and Shia can live in peace in Iraq?

I am pessimistic. I don't think that the Sunni and Shia will be together in a closed centralized country. I think the best solution is for them to establish a federal system, governed by moderate people, not radicals, who can serve their population and represent them.

The problem now in Iraq is that most of the Sunni politicians are not representing their communities, the ones in Baghdad, most of them are corrupt, they are working in the Government for their own profits, for their own benefits, and therefore they cannot represent their community.

The people don't know who represents the Sunni community in Iraq, we don't know. Is it ISIS? A radical group? The Ba’ath party remnants? Or the politicians sitting in parliament? We don't know.

Most of the Sunni regions are outside of the control of the Iraqi government, outside of the control of Sunni politicians, and therefore they cannot represent their communities. They should choose Sunni politicians who are not criminals, who are not ISIS supporters, who are not Al-Qaeda supporters, who can serve their citizens and serve the country. This is the problem we have now in Iraq.

Yazidis no monte Sinjar, cercados pelo Estado Islâmico

They have also taken in thousands of refugees, do the minorities feel gratitude towards the Kurds? How are relations between them?

The Kurdish government are doing what they can to support these IDPs and refugees. I think the situation now is that there is no conflict between the Yazidis, or the Christians, and the Kurds.

You can imagine if you have a country with a population of 5 million people and you send them two million refugees, it is a catastrophe. They cannot manage the problem. We know this. But as I said the best solution for these minorities, the Yazidis, the Christians and the Shabak is to establish a type of autonomous area for them. This solution should be implemented with the cooperation of the Iraqi government. 

Kurds are, mostly, Sunni. Is there also danger of radical Islam taking hold among the Kurds?

Yes, of course. We, the members of the minorities are afraid of radical people in Kurdistan. We are happy that the Government is secular, but in the community there are radicals and the Government should speak out against them.

It may be a small number, but over the last 20 years there was a type of islamization of the street, and this led to big problems, so that whereas the Kurdish people in the past were not very religious, there are now some religious people in the community.

There are some Kurds from the KRG who joined ISIS, a small amount, I don't know the number, maybe 300 or 500 fighters, more or less. There is fundamentalism in Kurdistan and we are trying to fight it, to become a liberal community in Kurdistan. We hope for this and we are working towards it, all of us.

What is your opinion on Turkey in the midst of all this?

The negative role of Turkey in support of the Islamic State is well known. Everybody knows that at the beginning Turkey played a very negative role in support of the Islamic groups, especially Jhabat al-Nusra, and other Islamic groups against Bashar al-Assad.

So now we have this problem: Turkey is under a big question mark, will it cooperate with the international community, first to stop the resources of ISIS and to stay in a positive situation? Until now its role has not been positive. Turkey cannot say "I will be independent about the issue of ISIS", because Turkey played a negative role and now they should change their policies and be positive, rather than negative.

Yazidi refugees in Erbil

All this instability has its roots in the Syrian civil war. Is there an end in sight?

They should find an outcome for the situation in Syria, peace should be established between all groups, with all opposition groups and non-opposition groups, otherwise we will have a massacre against the Alawites, for example.

All the Syrian players should work together, without Assad in power, but the Alawites should participate in planning the new country in a democratic way.

*Since this interview was conducted, the siege of Sinjar has been broken by Kurdish forces.

"Most Christians accept Hezbollah"

Full transcript of my interview with his grace Archbishop Issam John Darwish, of the Melkite Archdiocese of Furzol, Zahle and the Bekaa. News report (in Portuguese) here.

Transcrição completa, no inglês original, da minha entrevista com o Arcebispo Issam John Darwish, da arquidiocese melquita de Furzol, Zahle e do Bekaa. A notícia respectiva está aqui.

You are here to speak on Religious Freedom in Lebanon, what is the situation in your country like?

First, let me thank you for welcoming me to this station, and thanks to the Church in Need for inviting me to Portugal to speak about religious freedom.

In the Arab world there are some difficulties in Religious Freedom. But I will start with Lebanon. There we don't have any problems, because we are free to worship in any religion. We have 18 sects and anyone is free to worship. The political power in Lebanon is divided between the 18 communities.

In Syria and in Iraq the constitution also permits freedom of religion, but actually, if you have a mixed marriage between a Christian and a Muslim, they must register it under Islam.

In other Arabic countries it is very hard to worship as you like. In the Gulf they have started to build churches, but for example in Saudi Arabia we are not permitted to identify as Christians.

The Arab spring did not advance anything in the Arab world, neither democracy nor religious freedom. But we hope, in the future, after the events in Syria and in Iraq, that we can have a transparent Islam, share our lives and be free to worship as we like.

At the moment the situation seems better in Egypt, though...

Yes. There is more peace now.

Last month I was in Egypt. I was invited by the minister of Tourism, to open the Holy Family Road. Jesus, Mary and Joseph went to Egypt, to 25 places, and the tourism minister chose seven places with the Orthodox Patriarchate of the Copts for tourism sites. Representatives of all the churches were there for the inauguration.

With the new president, and the new regime, it is more peaceful. They respect all religions and we hope that will continue in Egypt.

Lebanon is, as you were saying, a special case. What is the situation of relationships among different Christians? It seems that they are divided.

No, the Christians are not divided politically.

There are two parties, one which sides with the Sunnis and one with the Shiites. But it is not a religious divide, it is a political divide. There is a dialogue between the Christian communities and we live together as brother and sister.

In my town we celebrate the liturgy and the mass together, we celebrate feasts together, and in Zahle, where I am a bishop, the bishops meet every month and decide things together. There are no problems within Christian communities.

But as you said, there are two parties, one allied with the Shiites, one with the Sunnis. Does that weaken the voice of the Christians?

I don't think so because the mentality of the Christians is more democratic. The diversity in the Christian community is for the benefit of the country. That is why we try to avoid the war, we try to be part of the society and we like to be together. I am the head of the Christian-Muslim dialogue in Lebanon. I speak in the name of all the Catholics in Lebanon, we have good relations with the Sunnis and the Shias, we live together, we are together for each other's feasts, and we try to help those Muslims raise their voices against the jihadists, the fundamentalists, that we see in Iraq and Syria.

Bekaa Valley

Most of the threats to Christians seem to be coming from radical Sunni factions. Could the future of Christianity in the Middle East be tied up to Shia Islam?

I think we should be close to both, to Sunnis and Shiites. We are a bridge between communities and would like to play this role to bring them together.

Iran has a big influence in the region. What is the situation like in Iran at the moment?

I don't have the impression that Iran is radical. They are very open. I know a few Iranians, who have come to Lebanon, and I know the Shiites, they are very open now and more open to the Christian people.

Iran supports Hezbollah, largely through Syria. If the regime in Syria were to fall, how would that affect the balance of power in Lebanon?

It will be a big problem for the Christians in Lebanon and in Syria. We know that the Shiites are influenced by Iran and the Sunnis are influenced by Saudi Arabia. I think when the problems started in Egypt we started to have a problem in Lebanon and Syria. That is why last month I told a few ministers in Egypt to use their influence over the Sunnis in Lebanon, because I know that the Egyptian way is more moderate than the Wahhabis from Saudi Arabia.

How has Lebanon managed to avoid being drawn into the conflict until now?

From the beginning of the war I said in one of my speeches in Lebanon: “Be careful, the people in Lebanon will be influenced by the war in Syria.” And we are now... the jihadists, the Daash [Islamic State], the Al-Nusra Front, are now on the border of Lebanon. They are not far from my town, Zahle, they are in the mountains. And every day there is a fight between the Lebanese army and the Jihadists.

Also, Hezbollah defend, with the army, the border of Lebanon. But the Government has been very sensible, the Sunnis, the Shiites and the government, work together to avoid the big problem in Lebanon. I think that now the situation will improve, after the events of Tripoli, last week, where the Lebanese army removed the jihadists from the city and Northern Lebanon.

Lebanese Christians were the only ones who, during conflicts, organized themselves into armed militias. What lessons does that hold for the current situations of Christians persecuted in the Middle East?

I don't think we should have militias. We learned from the past that this is not the way for peace. The way for peace is only through dialogue between the communities. Weapons and arms are not helping to get peace. That is why all Lebanese parties are now against militias in Lebanon.

Bishops have been almost unanimous in saying that they do not want a safe-haven or independent country for Christians in the Middle East. In your opinion, however, should other communities like the Kurds have their own state?

Apparently yes, there is a country for the Kurds, but as Christians we don't like to have a country for our people. We like to be with everybody, because we are the salt of the society and we like to be friends with everybody.

Hezbollah soldiers in Lebanon

You were born in Syria… how has the civil war there affected you?

I still have family in Damascus. I am worried about the situation, but apparently Damascus and the big cities are now safer than three years ago, when the war started in Syria.

I call for the heads of state in Europe to stop sending arms to Syria and Iraq, to understand the problems better, to understand our way of democracy. We cannot have the European democracy. The Arabic world should start to think how they can have their own democracy, maybe in the near future we will find this way.

You say that European democracy does not work in the Arab world, but Lebanon has a functional democracy...

Half of the population of Lebanon is Christian, and the Christians are more adequate for Democracy and they like to have democracy. Even the Lebanese Muslims are apt to have democracy, because Lebanon is a unique state, the only state in the Arab world with a Christian president.

In Lebanon Hezbollah still have their own army and have resisted attempts to demiliterize. How do the Christians see the fact that there is this party in Lebanon with its own army?

Most of the Christians accept now presence of Hezbollah, because they have defended the Christian villages in Syria, like Maaloula. Maaloula was liberated by Hezbollah and other Christian villages in Syria also. That is why we now see Hezbollah as resistance against Israel and the jihadists in Syria, and especially against Daesh.

You said that it would be bad for the Christians if the regime fell in Syria. But do you see a future for Bashar al-Assad in power?

I would not like to see Daesh take the position of Assad. Assad, even with his faults, in Syria, is better than Daesh, Al-Nusra and other jihadists. At least we know that in his regime Christians are free to worship, to build churches, and the Government gave some land to help build their own monasteries and churches. I think that if we look between Syria and other Arabic countries, it is easier to live in Syria than other Arabic countries, except, of course, Lebanon.

“Not even the majority of the Sunnis are with the opposition”

Full transcript of interview with Osama Siblani, publisher of the Arab American News, on the situation in Syria. Story, in Portuguese, here.

Transcrição completa da entrevista a Osama Siblani, editor da Arab American News, sobre a situação na Síria. Reportagem aqui.

What is your view of what is going on in Syria?

The Syrian crisis has many layers. The thinnest layer, at the moment, is between the Syrians themselves. When the so-called revolution, or uprising started, in a city called Deraa (?) it was for reforms, democracy, but they were not asking for the overthrow of the Government.

Unfortunately mistakes from the Government’s side, and interference from outside powers which have their own regional agenda, have put their input into the uprising and immediately after that it started becoming militarized. Once it had been militarized the dynamic changed on the ground and it slowly became a conflict within Syria but with outside forces intervening all the time, more and more. This is the second layer, of the regional forces, with Iran, Hezbollah and Iraq on the side of the Regime and on the other side Turkey, Qatar and Saudi Arabia. Israel had a silent role.

This layer also became important in the game and the whole dynamic had changed.

The biggest and probably the most important one, which has been always present but has become more and more prominent, having become the thickest layer, is the international involvement, with Europe, USA, Saudia Arabia, Turkey, Qatar and Jordan on the side of the rebels and on the other side Russia and China.

So there are the three layers, the Syrians, the regional players and the international layer.

So at this time it is no longer about freedom, reforms, overthrowing the regime and installing another one. It is a struggle to determine the future of the World Order. The Russians want to change how to do business in the world order and to flex their muscles in the Eastern Mediterranean. So this is where we are right now.

I don’t think Arabs, Arab Americans or even Syrians at this time are able to reconcile their differences and stop this war.

What do you think of the possibility of USA intervening?

I am against intervention, for many reasons.

The USA is not the policeman of the World. I don’t think it should be.

The USA is in financial difficulties, Detroit filed bankruptcy and is the first of many cities to do the same, because the country is going through a financial crises. We have 16 trillion dollars in debts and 1.5 trillion in budget deficit. We are cutting right and left and we cannot afford to lose more money, more troops, more men and women, and kill other people and have a bad reputation, considering what we did in Iraq in 2003, when we went in under false premises. We fought an immoral and unjustified war. We destroyed Iraq, we left 10 years later with the country still in shambles, and disintegrated, with more killings every day.

We killed millions and drove our economy into the ground. It is not in America’s best interest to intervene in Syria. It is not in Syria’s interest for America to intervene. If America intervenes militarily, on which side should they fight? If they fight Assad’s regime they will find themselves in the company of Al Qaeda and Jabhat al-Nusra, which we claim to have been fighting over the last 13 years.

So we are in a peculiar position, America is no longer the only power in the world. The world is changing, and it is changing in Syria, by the conflict in Syria. The USA can no longer dictate policies around the world. It is still the most powerful country, but others are rising, including Russia and China.

You don’t believe the Syrians can reconcile their differences. So how can this war end?

Probably it won’t end in the near future, because as I said it consists of three layers. The weakest layer is at the national level. I don’t think that the Syrians and the Arab countries are willing or able at this time to come together to resolve the situation, because it is far more spread and the regional interests of non-Arab countries, such as Israel, Turkey and Iran are heavily involved.

So I believe that we have to start at the top. We need to start by having an American – Russian agreement, and this will be an umbrella for a regional agreement. They cannot force it on the regional players, because they also have an agenda, so they need to bring Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Iran and Israel into the mix and try to find a solution at the regional level, that the international umbrella will cover.

Once this is done I believe the local layer can be resolved as quickly as anybody can imagine. Because all the players are financed and supported by regional and international powers, so once the international and regional players come to the table with an agreement, then the Syrians themselves, even if it is not acceptable to them will have to accept it.

Of course it remains to be seen who will have the upper hand on the ground at the time. That local player will perhaps be the local winner of the war. So there are too many components, it is very complicated, it cannot be resolved immediately and there is a lot at stake economically with the gas supplies, the pipelines, supply to Europe, how this will affect the Russian’s gas supply to Europe, which is the lifeline of Russia. How this will affect the industrial revolution in China, which depends heavily, up to 70% on Middle Eastern oil, how is this going to affect Europe in the long run, and Israel and the United States? All this is shaping up at this time, and unfortunately the ones who are paying the bill here are the Syrian people.

Do you imagine a future for Assad in a post-war Syria?

It depends on who will have the upper hand on the ground. I believe that Assad has proven, so far, that he has a formidable machine on the ground. There were some defections but they were insignificant for his army, his diplomatic and governmental branches are still robust and functioning. In this last crisis he has shown that a leader can make a decision quickly and abide by it, whereas the opposition are disintegrated, they have no central command, they are not able to make decisions, their loyalties are divided among their sponsors and supporters.

At the end of the day, in politics there are no feelings, it depends on who can deliver on the ground. Bashar Assad has proven that he is the strongest player in Syria, and when you are the strongest player. And when you are the strongest player you are not eliminated. It does not make sense to win and have them say “now you have to leave, you won, you fought, you paid all these sacrifices and now you have to pack and leave”. It doesn’t make any sense.

Do you believe that Assad was responsible for the chemical attack?

No I don’t.

First of all, I don’t know. I am the publisher of a newspaper, I have connections, I have met with several congressional leaders, to find out what they have. I did not get any indication from the congressional leaders I met with in the past few weeks. Nobody gave me any evidence. They have no evidence that Bashar al-Assad’s troops did that. In fact, we are hearing more facts coming out, like not all the people gathering in the hospitals were the casualties of that particular attack.

So I believe it has not been proven. We do not know what happened, we don’t know what kind of chemical weapons were used [interview recorded before UN’S final findings], I wanted to wait for the UN to come out with their findings, and again there is a major problem with United States intelligence and British intelligence, because they have fooled and lied to people in 2003 and they lost credibility and even their own people don’t believe them anymore and the world does not believe them either. They went to war on false pretence, where are the weapons of mass destruction? We have no answers to all these lies. Colin Powell holding the chemical agents, and such things.

I don’t believe the regime would use chemical weapons, for a simple reason, just logic. I don’t have proof, but I know they were making progress on the ground, scoring victories and taking over villages. So why would someone who is making gains on the ground use chemical weapons in order to aggravate the situation and get the west to intervene?

Also, the Syrian regime had accepted a UN commission to enter Syria and investigate previous acts of chemical attacks and allegations. They had just arrived in Damascus, so who would strike with Chemical weapons while a UN committee is sitting in a hotel in Damascus? It doesn’t make sense.

Plus, the third reason, is because the regime has a very organised structure that prevents something like this from happening. On the other side there is a chaotic situation and the loyalties are divided all over the place, and there is a major player who was introduced recently, Bandar bin Sultan [member of Royal Hhouse of Saud], who holds the whole issue of the opposition from the Saudi side, and some reporters have indications that he has given the opposition some chemical weapons or agents.

These are all assumptions, I have no proof. I am only using  my own analysis to look at the situation, to see who would benefit from this, the one who is losing on the ground, the one who has been asking for an American intervention, knowing that Obama had drawn a red line [in the case of use of chemical weapons]. They were trying to provoke the USA and bring them into the battle field, and they almost won, we were on the brink of war.

But fortunately we had cool heads in Moscow, Putin proved himself to be more worthy of the Noble Peace Prize than Barack Obama, unfortunately. Now the military solution is taking a back seat, the diplomatic solution is now what everybody is talking about, and that makes me happy.

Siblani fala a um grupo de manifestantes pró-Assad

Within the community in America is there also a sectarian divide?

I do not believe that most of the Sunni in Syria supports the opposition, it just doesn’t make sense.

Maybe not all the Sunnis support the opposition, but most of the opposition are Sunni…

First of all lets look at who is fighting the regime. There is Al Qaeda, the Wahhabis and the Muslim Brotherhood, which are Sunni. And who is supporting them? Turkey, run by the Muslim Brotherhood and Saudi Arabia, which is Wahhabi. So if you look at it this way, then yes, the majority of the opposition are Sunni, but the majority of those fighting for the regime are also Sunni.

Now maybe the forces that are actually making progress on the ground are not Sunni. I don’t know, I don’t know if the Alawites have special divisions or not. But I know that there is the Baathist party, and that there are socialist movements in Syria that cross the sectarian line. I know that they have forces and militias on the ground and that they don’t have religious affiliation. The Baathist party crosses all lines.

Christians in Syria, in Egypt, they want the government, they want stability. Look at what happened in Egypt. Immediately after the instability 72 churches were burned in two days. This is what is happening in Syria too. So under the Assad regime or the Mubarak regime, before, and under the Sisi regime know, the situation is under control and the Christians are more comfortable with the situation. I am not saying they are against democracy, but nobody is really respecting the democratic process anyway.

Aleppo and Damascus are majority Sunni, and the rebels were not able to get into Aleppo in the beginning. When they did get in to Aleppo and started the process of destruction, most of the people wanted the regime to come back. I am not saying that the Sunnis in Syria are in love with the regime, but they are definitely not in favour the chaotic situation in the country. They want change, but they want evolution, not revolution, not destroy and then build, and kill, but to change slowly but surely towards a democratic regime.

It has been proven that democracy is not a pill you can take. It is a process and a culture that you have to grow. Nobody can send a missile with a warhead of democracy. So we have to be careful when we start to talk about Sunnis and Shias. Is this a perception? Yes it is. Are there Sunnis opposed to the rebels? Inside Syria and outside Syria, yes. Here in this community, yes. But are there Sunnis also with the opposition, yes.

The minorities always stand with the Government because they want protection and they do not want the majorities to take over and they have seen what they have done in other areas, especially in Egypt and Tunisia. They want to be protected by the regime. Bashar Al-Assad is Alawite, but his wife is Sunni. I really don’t think that the struggle there is Sunni – Shia. I think that it has many shapes. One of them is that the World Order has to be changed. There are other powers… They may not be as powerful as the US, but they are willing to challenge.

But the countries supporting the regime and the opposition, here there seems to be a clear sectarian line…

At the regional level the countries that are supporting the regime… for example, the Government in Egypt is now supporting the regime…

Because of the Muslim Brotherhood?

Because of the Muslim Brotherhood, but at the same time the blood between Qatar and Saudi Arabia is deeper than between them and Iran. Also what is happening between Turkey and the United Arab Emirates, there is a real struggle there. What is happening in Egypt has nothing to do with Sunni and Shia. Algeria, for example, is Sunni and is supporting the regime. They have interests that they have to take into consideration with the Saudis, but they voted against the strike against Syria, they voted against kicking Syria out of the Arab League.

So I do not want to draw these lines with a knife, but at the same time I do not want to blur them to the extent that I look silly. They exist, some people are trying to play this card and it is very obvious that the sectarian line and tension has been played for a long time. Some forces in the region wanted this to happen. I hope that what we have seen in Lebanon, that the majority of the Sunnis may be standing with the Saudis, with the March 14^th, but also there are 30 to 40% of the sunnis who are not with the March 14^th and the Saudis. So there is a blurred line. We have to see that this is a struggle, it is a war, and in a war you use all your weapons, including the sectarian and there is a ground that is fertile for the sectarian struggle, and it is being used.

I don’t think that there are many things in common between the shias of Lebanon, Iraq and Iran. You’ll find, if you look back in history, that it is not true. The Shia in the Arab world are more nationalist, they looked at Nasser, and at Khadafi at a younger age, and Arafat, they never were in the fold of the Shah of Iran, even though he was Shia.

The historical differences between Sunnis and Shias are 1400 years old, they are not something new. Why have they surfaced now? Because there are people who are playing with this, really feeling it and trying to use it for a different goal. So far they have failed and I hope they do fail, because this is a very dangerous thing to play with.

Nasser

You were born in Lebanon?

I was born in Lebanon and came to the USA in 1976.

And you are from a Shia family?

I don’t like to identify myself, because I don’t feel this way. I don’t even feel Lebanese. I have always been a pan-arabist. Look at this picture behind me? It is Nasser. He is more important to me than my father. I don’t have a picture of Hassan Nasrallah, for example [leader of Hezbollah], and I could if I wanted to. I have grown up with Nasser’s ideas that there is one Arab nation and that we have common causes, grounds and denominators. I don’t believe in sectarianism. I am a Muslim and I happen to be from the Shia family, but I don’t believe in any of this.

I don’t even believe in differences between Muslims and Christians. I believe what Imam Ali, son in law of the Prophet said, “A man is either your brother in religion or an equal to you in humanity”. So if you are not my brother in religion you are my equal as a human. I truly believe this. I truly believe that as humans we have more in common among us than differences. And religion and politics sometimes gets in the way.

Ver também: The Arab-American Community in Michigan e Interview with Sawsan Jabri.