Full
transcript of my interview with “George Day”, as he is known in the Courage UK
Apostolate. The article, in Portuguese, can be
read here.
Transcrição completa da conversa com “George Day”, como é
conhecido no apostolado da Courage UK. O
artigo respectivo pode ser lido aqui.
Perhaps you can explain briefly what the
apostolate is, and what it's goals are...
Well,
first of all, we don't use the term homosexual or gay, because this is, we
fear, rather limiting of the anthropological mystery of the human person. We
prefer to refer to ourselves as person with same-sex attraction.
Although
in practice it doesn't make much difference, because we still have to deal with
this on a day to day basis, the only difference from other organizations is
that we try to live according to the Church's teachings.
By that you mean that your members are
committed to a life of chastity and celibacy...
Yes.
When I was trying to find info about your group
I found another group called courage, which has ceased to exist, and which was
an Evangelical organization. Jeremy Marks, who replied to my e-mail said that
although they had started out with the same focus, they had given up on that
approach, because they found it to be harmful to the people they worked with.
Jeremy
Marks and I know each other very well.
There
are two approaches which are similar, in the sense that they are according to
the church's teachings, to the Bible if you wish, which is either to live a
chaste life, or to get married to somebody of the opposite sex. However, what
some organisations tried to do, as was the case of the other “Courage”, is
point more to a direction of change of sexual orientation.
But our
organisation mainly tries to develop chastity, a desire for chastity, chastity
of the heart. If a change of orientation does happen, then it is welcomed, but
this is not our aim.
You are referring to conversion therapy, which
in some places has even been forbidden. You say that if a change occurs it is
welcomed, but what is your position on actually having therapy to try and
change somebody's sexual orientation?
We don't
endorse it, nor do we fight it. We are not against it or in favour. If some of
our members... we do have members actually who are trying to change their
orientation, and that is fine, we support them, but it is not something that we
endorse.
So how does the group work? Do you meet on a
regular basis to discuss...
Yes. We
try to meet on a weekly basis. We are a little bit like Alcoholics Anonymous,
we try to discuss in a safe and confidential environment, what our week has
been like, the challenges that we faced, and how our success is, or even our
failures, sometimes. It really is like a 12 step programme, we just try to,
with the help of God, live according to the Church's teachings.
These groups are composed of men and women?
Yes.
How many people in London?
We have
quite a good number. Those who come to the meetings regularly are about five or
six, but we have more than 20 members.
What is the particular challenge to living a
chaste lifestyle when you have same-sex attraction?
I think
the challenge is that chastity is difficult for everybody, it doesn't matter
whether you have same-sex attraction or opposite sex attraction, it is
difficult for everybody.
Every
day we are bombarded by messages, media, and it really is difficult.
This is
a reason why we need to build a fellowship with like-minded people, because it
really does help to have the support of other brothers and sisters who try to
live according to the church's teachings.
What
makes it more difficult for persons with same-sex attraction is that there is a
lot of misunderstanding, even in the Church. Most people do not understand this
issue. So sometimes we face maybe prejudice, condemnation, which really is not
needed, it doesn't help. Even when we try to do the right thing we feel
overburdened with things that don't really belong to us, like prejudice and
condemnation. We need more education of the Church and society at large, about
chastity or same sex attraction, or chastity in the context of same-sex
attraction would help a lot!
Do you have hopes that the synod of the Family
will deal with this issue?
I can't
speak about that, I am not a member of the hierarchy so it is not my position
to make a judgement. But I trust the Holy Father, I trust my partners. I
believe Pope Francis has a very clear understanding of this issue. My only concern
is that there are groups in the church which do not support the teachings of
the Church and are trying to push their way to the forefront.
This is
only my opinion... I feel that there is a danger that they might actually
affect the thinking of some pastors in authority. I would like to see Courage
more supported by the clergy, and this is my strong desire. We are the only
organisation that enjoys the full endorsement of the Holy See, the Pontifical
Council of the Family. Any other group whether they endorse reorientation or
the gay life-style, they simply are not approved by the Church. We are the only
group approved by the Church.
Groups like yours come under a lot of fire from
the activist groups which press for "gay rights". How are you seen by
them?
We don't
have dealings with each other. We respect each other. At the end of the day...
we don't wake up one morning and say, ‘You know what? Today I am going to be
attracted to men...’. No, it’s a cross that we have to bear.
And like
every cross, we respect the fact that each individual has a choice to deal with
it in their own right, in their own way. We respect that. However we are very
adamant, very serious, very committed to our efforts.
You have
to think of alcoholics who want to stay sober. They wouldn't go to the pub with
their drinking mates, would they? Because that wouldn't help their sobriety.
But that doesn't mean that they hate them, or that they are against them, or
anything. It just means they have chosen the path of sobriety.
If we
began to mingle with activist groups that don't support the message of
chastity, this would not help, of course.
Where are you from?
I am
Italian.
Being Italian, did you grow up in a Catholic
family?
My
family are not Catholic.
So yours is a story about conversion?
Yes.
Can you tell us a bit about it?
Oh yes!
I am very open about it, although this matter is still under investigation of
the Holy See, my conversion came through Medjugorje.
It was
the Blessed Mother, the Mother of Jesus. It was an experience of love that I
felt from Jesus and Mary.
I always
knew the teachings of the Church. In fact I used to be a member of Quest, I
used to be one of the leaders of Quest, an activist group, and when I came to a
deep, profound experience of the love of God, I felt that with all the respect
and love I had for them, that organisation was not helping my conversion to
holiness. So it was my own choice to move away from them and begin my journey
with Courage.
What led you to go to Medjugorje in the first
place?
Like
everybody, I just went on a pilgrimage, the rest just happened.
What message would you give to young people
struggling with a tension between their same sex attraction and their faith?
Jesus
loves you.
This is
true.
There
was a time when I thought I was unlovable. The message I received was a very
strong message of condemnation. No matter where people are at in life, Jesus is
with them in their journey. All I can say is He picked up the adulterous woman
and said to her I don't condemn you, go and sin no more.
It is a
message of love, but it is also a message of conversion. But the conversion has
to be once we feel the unconditional love of Jesus, then we can choose to
follow his path.
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